$50,000,000+ Pokemon Collector Breaks Silence on Logan Paul, PSA Controversy, & Stolen Cards

I have the biggest Pokémon card collection in the world. >> What's your most expensive one? >> Uh the most expensive card is probably the pristine 10 first edition base Charizard. [music] >> My Charizard collection is listed right now for almost $50 million. >> We have some of the biggest investors here on the channel, and for some reason your Pokémon card collection has outperformed all of them. >> Well, I know why. The reason is I get 20 messages a day from all the big guys, Justin Bieber. They all want my cards. >> I bought a first edition base Charizard for $700. Now it's worth about 500 grand. >> Logan came over just to visit. He ended up making a play for one of the cards. >> I know what you're thinking. [music] This is stupid, right? You're paying a quarter million dollars for a piece of cardboard, and you're right. >> He said, "Gary, I'm a maverick." I said, "Okay, not very bright." >> $60 million $492,000. >> What's the darkest side of the high-end Pokémon market that you've been aware of? Gary, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. You've been called the Warren Buffett of Pokémon. I'm curious, what's the total value of your collection today? >> Well, you know, it's kind of interesting. I heard you and Logan talking about the number of the most premium cards I had or something, and uh hopefully I say you guys are way off. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. You you were closer though with what you said. I think you said about 20 million, and that Logan was more, you know, 10 million or 12 million or something like that. So, I it I know it's a bit of a general, you know, statement, but it's well over those amounts. >> If someone offered you $50 million right now for your entire Pokémon collection, would you accept it? >> Wow, that would be tempting. But That would be tempting. You know, I'm too old to need it. >> [laughter] >> I don't need the money. And uh it's all eventually probably going to go to our you know, one of our charities and that. So, that would be hard to say no on. So, I'm going to I'm going to say maybe on that one. >> It's something to sleep on. >> Yeah, but but it kind of hurts me to say that because I'm in no mind frame whatsoever to ever give those cards up. I know I gave one to Logan. You know, Logan bought one and Steve Aoki bought one. And do you know that story with Steve Aoki? >> Tell us. >> Logan came over just to visit, just to see see my collection and all that. And you probably saw the video uh where he ended up making a play for one of the cards he knew I wouldn't sell and I didn't. Then he took my son aside, Devon, and said, "Would your dad be offended if I you know, tried to get one of the PSA 10 first edition base Charizards? And that you know, would your would your cuz I know your dad doesn't want to sell nor needs to sell anything." And uh Devon said, "Well, he would never sell the Beckett 10s." And he said it's very unlikely he would sell anything out of his collection. And Logan said, "Well, would it would he get offended?" And Devon said, "No, you know, he's easy going. He doesn't care. You know, you can offer, but he won't won't take it." And so, that's how that happened, you know, with Logan. You know, like you saw uh I had a moment of weakness. >> Well, I saw he he opened up a briefcase and had $150,000 cash in there. >> Yes. >> Was it just seeing the cash in front of you? >> Meant absolutely nothing. >> Do you regret selling Logan Paul a PSA 10 first edition base set Charizard for $150,000. >> I don't regret it at all. But but I have to tell you one other thing. Steve Aoki, he had been trying for years to get me to sell him a card, right? And I never would. And so he called me and he said, "You sold Logan one of your cards, and I've been trying for you and I'm your friend, and I've been trying for years to get you to sell me one, and you won't do it." And that and I went I said, "Okay, I'll I'll sell you one." So Logan bought his for the 150,000. I sold the one to Steve. Right after Logan purchased it, prices went up, right? Which is I kind of anticipated. Uh Steve, I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, uh but he paid 172,000 for a second one. But then I used those dollars to purchase two more in those coming months. And I had to pay more because after Logan purchased, the prices jumped. Had to pay more, so I came out quite a bit behind, maybe 20, 30, 40,000 behind. But I did purchase two more, and I went back to having 12 of them. >> You know what's crazy is we bring people on this podcast that are career investors. You know, Chris Camillo turned $20,000 into 20 million. >> Probably more than that. >> Probably 100 million at this point, who knows. We bring on the genius entrepreneurs, business people, investors, and you've probably outperformed most of them because you bought Charizards. Tell me the point that you knew this would be a very viable investment opportunity. Like the exact moment. >> Well, that's actually a wonderful question because I did have a clue. And the only reason I had a clue is because I'm a lifelong collector. I started collecting when I was 5 years old in 1959. I would collect bottle caps with football players pictures on the you know we'd snap off the bottle cap top and on the inside there'd be a picture of a football player. And when I was 5 years old I started collecting those and I immediately [clears throat] had to catch them all. I immediately had to complete the whole set. And my father, remember I'm a little tiny kid 5 years old, would take me to all the gas stations that I'd take a magnet and load it down the Coke machine you know where you you know knock off the top right and all the bottle caps in the bottom run them a magnet down below and pull up all the bottle caps until I get them all. Well, from that point on I I've been uh major completionist and very much so a collector and a love for collecting. And I can tell you that though most of those bottle caps I may not have today, you know how they got knocked off in boxes over the years. I have some. Uh I never gave them up. You know I kept all my collections going back Here is why I have five storage lockers in three different states with my collections inside. And honestly 95% of them are worth absolutely nothing except the memories you know that I have from each and every set and thing I collected. >> What's the most valuable collection you have outside of Pokémon? >> I would say probably my science fiction magazines from the 1920s my pulp magazines science wonder stories. I would say those are probably the the next most valuable because I got them in very good condition and I knew I was old enough and long time collector I knew to how to protect them because pulp magazines were not made to collect. In the 1920s, they were made to read and throw away. So, the paper was crumbly. It's hard to find one with a spine that doesn't have crumbles and and all that. And mine are amazing condition. So, maybe those >> What you do kind of reminds me of angel investor. It's someone that just throws a bunch of money at a bunch of random things and one thing, that being Pokémon and maybe your sci-fi magazines or novels or whatever they are, that those jump and you make your ROI on that. How much money have you spent buying all of these collectibles? >> You know, going back, I'm 72 years old. Going back to 65 years, back to when that little boy was collecting those bottle caps, there would be absolutely no way could I figure out how much I've spent over these 65 years on all my stuff. Again, I have five storage lockers filled with collectibles. And I would say the vast majority I paid more than they would be worth today for that stuff. But it was stuff that that I just wanted to complete and collect. And then when my boys, I have two sons that are probably your ages, right? I I started collecting things with them and overpaying on most things. It wasn't the money. I never collected as an investment. You know, I otherwise I would have sold I There were opportunities to sell my Pokémon cards 10 times over the last 26 years. Probably 10 times. 27 year 28 years now, almost. Uh and yet I never sold them. >> I understand you didn't do it from an investment perspective, but the way you look at investments is like, okay, well, how much money did I put in and what did I get out? And if what you got out is about $30 million. If you put in a million dollars, that's a 30X. Like people can only drink If you put money in Sandisk a year ago, that's the only way you could have 30-Xed. Okay, let's be honest. So, I'm curious, do you think it could be around a million dollars? I'm just trying to get a grasp of like the returns that alternative investments can get if you're doing it perfectly. >> Uh I would probably have to say it would come out to less than a million dollars over all these years because remember most of the things simply didn't I started in the beginning of all of them. >> Mhm. >> Except we were talking about Magic the Gathering and I missed the first two sets, but even those weren't that expensive in the very beginning. Uh so, I would say probably probably less than a million dollars. >> What's the cheapest PSA 10 base set first edition Charizard you've ever bought? >> Maybe 700. I remember getting one in 2000 for 700. >> Wow. >> 700 dollars. 700 dollars for a PSA 10. Remember back then, people were not grading Uh I'm the one who started the the great PSA grading of Pokémon cards uh besides the ones that were brought over for the Japanese promos from Japan that went on the Shop at Home Network and that uh besides those, the English ones, I was the I was the first one to start grading along with E-Birdman, Eddie Bernicholtz. Him and I uh maybe you know me and my friend Eddie have graded 76 of the 125 PSA 10 first edition base Charizards. We've graded 76. We have paperwork, old paperwork from PSA showing that. And you can check the pop report now and you'll see there's 124, 125 minus one, the one Logan cracked. >> Yeah. >> That's like a 400-X return. That's crazy. Who is selling it? >> Mhm. >> A very unfortunate person. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> But it's worked both ways because in the very beginning I did sell some some stuff and I had a young man in the in his 30s come up to me at a recent card show and showed me a card that he said I sold him 26 years ago. And it was a it was a shadowless PSA 10 Charizard. And he he said, you know, Gary, you want to remember me or you want to remember this, but when I was young when I was a kid you sold me this card in a shadowless PSA 10 and that and which of course I wouldn't remember now. And he purchased that one for $350 he said. >> Mhm. >> So and now now that card, you know, of course is >> What do you think that's worth? $175,000? >> I would say over 100,000, but I'm not really exactly sure. I I do have 10 PSA 10 shadowless Charizards myself. >> Now what I find remarkable is that you're on the podcast 5 and 1/2 years ago. >> Yes. >> And I watched it back and a lot of what you said ended up coming true. You said at the time that the Pokémon market was a bit inflated because of Logan Paul's involvement in videos and you said wait 2 years and that is a good time to buy. And sure enough that was 2022 at the bottom of the Pokémon market. So you're correct on that. The other thing you were correct about is that you said that you believed a BGS 10 Charizard would outperform real estate. You're also correct on that. >> Yes. Have been accurate with those estimates and guesses really are because I've been collecting for 60 years. I've seen the good things come and go go up and down and uh, seen the staying power I mean I've I've seen everything from the Michael Jordan rookies, you know, the Fleer rookies all the way up to the O.J. Simpson rookies and what's happened, you know, with these things over time and uh with Pokémon from the very beginning, I I didn't see it as an investment, but I knew it was a good investment for anybody who wanted to get involved. And that because it had a few determinants that were uh, unmistakable for anybody who's been collecting for that many years. They've seen so many things. Uh, and on the opposite side, I've seen like Beanie Babies, you know, that's a real bad one. Uh, I've seen how they developed, what happened to them and that's information, you know, that you can use later, you know, in in uh, in what you decide to collect or not collect. So, I would just say it's because of my lifelong collecting gene that's always had me paying attention and I knew and I you asked me today about Pokémon. And Pokémon, yeah, it's going to have spikes, but the bottom line has been steadily up for 27 years. Okay, it's been steadily up and sure you've had these things and these things and but it's been steadily up. And I've always believed that for 15 years after they produced their final set that hobby is is per is a beautiful thing to experience. That's for sure. >> So, since we are a bit of an investment podcast, I'm curious since we filmed five and a half years ago, which card has had the best return? And really quick, I got to say every single business is asking themselves the same question. How do we make AI work for us? The possibilities are endless, but guessing is too risky, and sitting on the sidelines is not an option either, because one thing is almost certain, your competitors are already making their move. And that's exactly where our sponsor NetSuite by Oracle comes in. It's the number one AI cloud ERP trusted by more than 43,000 businesses to manage everything from financials and inventory to commerce, HR, and CRM all in one unified system. 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The guide is free for you at netsuite.com/iced. Again, that is netsuite.com/iced with the link down below in the description. Thank you, NetSuite, for supporting the show, and now let's get back to the episode. >> So, since we are a bit of an investment podcast, I'm curious, since we filmed 5 and 1/2 years ago, which card has had the best return? >> You know, but a lot of it isn't just the card, it's the people involved. You know, what Logan Paul did with with the illustrator, with that Pokémon illustrator, I mean, that's I would say that's probably performed, you know, one of the best dollar-wise. Character-wise, Gengar, Gengar was never that big of a deal. You know, he was always kind of cool, you know, but he was never ever anybody's favorite. Now, half the hobby, he's their favorite. And so, everything with Gengar on it is uh has done incredibly well. >> Why is that? Why did he just become so popular all of a sudden? >> I That one I wish I had the answer to. Characters like Pikachu, of course, and Charizard, they were givens. Lugia started off big, real big. Uh you know, a lot of those guys ended up big, but Gengar was never, you know, that consequential until, you know, a few years ago, and it just took off, and I'm really not sure why. >> You know what's interesting? All of the Pokémon that you're saying are the Pokémon that when I was a kid and I was playing the games, I still play the games to this day, but when I was a kid, those are the ones I liked. Like, those are the ones Gengar I picked out, and I was like, every single run, I have to have a Gengar. Like, I love Gengar. So, maybe >> what you have to do is just like look back on when you were a kid and the things that excited you. Everyone loves Alakazam. >> Yes. >> Right? Maybe there's some value to be seen in Alakazam cards. Whenever you do a run, everyone always wants to get the Abra. It's hard. It teleports away. Like, there's That could be another one. >> Well, that's a good tip. That's actually a really good tip. You know, you asking me that question, now if it's something besides Pokémon, I'd look back to, you know, you know, what really rang my bell the most when I was younger, you know, when I was a kid or whatever. Uh and why would my feelings be any different than the majority of the people around back then? So, that that could be that could be a good thing. Uh I mean, Gengar was a good card to use in your deck in that, you know, but, you know, now it's a it's a collector's special, right? So. >> Now, another thing that people recognize you from is being on Pawn Stars and having, I believe, one of the most viewed episodes ever in their history >> Yes. selling your Charizard collection for $500,000, and they said no. I'm curious today, what do you think that would be worth? >> First off, that Pawn Stars segment, not the whole episode, but just our segment has been viewed over 100 million times worldwide. If you can imagine that. >> But if Rick bought it for 500 grand, what do you think it would be worth? >> The truth is is that Rick would have flipped. He would have flipped it. You know, he would have bought it for 500,000 and then tried to get 550,000 as quick as possible. Uh so he doesn't have any regrets and Chumlee has has mentioned that many times, you know, that that there's no regrets they didn't purchase my collection. Uh you know, because it just would have been a several thousand dollars, you know, profit for them and it would have moved on from there. Uh now, did I want to sell it? Absolutely not. I was not interested in selling my Charizard collection. That's why I asked at the time, top retail, getting to your question, top retail at the time was probably about 500,000 and we knew Rick isn't going to pay 500,000 for anything, right? So, uh what would that be worth today? Uh I have those cards listed on eBay a year and a half ago, I had it at 19 million and then I went up to 29 million, now it's 49 million cuz I don't want to sell it. So, actual value of those 132 cards I took in maybe maybe 30 1 32,000. >> What's the highest offer you've ever received for your entire Pokémon collection? >> Yeah, it's hard for people to offer on the whole thing. I can tell you this, I did sell 17% of my Charizard collection. I don't know if you know that. >> Mhm. No. >> I did sell there there was a video made of it. Uh you know SM Pratt? Scott Pratt? He made a video where he flew out to knowing I was going to do that to a a Russian friend of mine who wanted to purchase 17% of my Charizard collection. And uh and this was a you very like a best friend. >> Mhm. >> And so I decided to do it. Just like I had that wheat moment with Logan, I had a wheat moment with this. And so I sold 17% of it for what was it? Like 90,000? Something like that? 17%? Uh he's done very well with it. And but he doesn't get any of the cards, any of the collection until I pass away. >> Oh, wow. >> cuz my my share, you know, which is 83%, my share is all going to our charities. His share, he can do what whatever he wants with. So. >> What's the highest offer someone has ever brought to you for your Charizard collection? >> Because I got a substantial offer for uh all of the English base ones, which amounts to about 80 cards or something. And I was offered about 17 million for that. Uh but that was like in 2010. >> Wow. >> Something like that. So. >> That was the last big offer you've received? >> that that's the biggest offer. The I don't think uh I've received any legitimate high offers for all of them, you know, since. >> Why do you think people are so obsessed with Pokémon again, all of a sudden? >> 20 years of going to school and and uh adulthood beginning their jobs, you know, those kind of take a priority for the for the kids of that those ages of that era. Now, those kids have got the money. Now they got the money. Now they want to buy back their memories, which is what I think we all want to do, you know, with our collections, real real collectors. Uh so, maybe it's the maybe it's the timing. Maybe it's the you know, now that those kids have grown up, now they want to go backwards. >> Mhm. When's the exact moment that you knew that this was going to be so big? >> You know, people ask me that all the all the time. They say, "Gary, how were you so smart? How do you know to to hang on to these and and and to buy these and to save them and I had no idea. You know, I wasn't smart at all. It's just that that's how my my collections is have always been. I've always bought what I wanted and what I enjoyed. Uh I can tell you how my real passion started with Pokémon. Uh but I I wasn't smart at all. It's just that I was just following the pattern of my life, what I've always done. And again, the majority of the things I could tell you about went to absolutely nothing, went to zero in that. Did I ever get rid of them? No. They're still sitting there and they they still mean just as much to me today, you know, as they did then. So, I didn't know. Honestly, I didn't know. >> How were you able to amass such a large collection though? Were you going and trying to buy these individually? Were you just going to card shops? How were you able to get even first edition boxes? >> Right. Well, you know, I guess I was kind of fortunate being on the West Coast because Wizards of the Coast released did all their releases from West to East, right? They they released their first edition boxes without them being a huge big deal on the West Coast and I was in California, living in California. And already a hobbyist and already you know, a wanting to complete sets and in that. And then when I saw what Pokémon was doing and also I knew that Pokémon transferred well from Japan. I knew everything transferred over well from Japan when it came to collectibles. Uh I was pretty connected, you know, with card shops and things like that cuz I was a lifelong collector and a great customer and that. So when Pokémon came in, it it didn't mean that it wasn't that big of a deal. Wizards made a very small quantity of first edition base uh because they didn't know how it was going to do. Didn't want to over print. >> Mhm. >> And uh And so they they released it and I pretty much had the pick of the litter, you know, back then and and I was already in my 40s. >> Mhm. >> I was already a lifelong collector. I already, you know, knew what I was doing. And so I, you know, just got as many as I could and I ended up with a ton. >> Let's talk about the Pikachu Illustrator card though. >> Yes. >> What was the final price that it sold for? >> 16 million. He got over 16 million for it. For a PSA 10. >> Do you think that over 16 million dollars for this Pikachu Illustrator card was too much money? >> Well, I can tell you this, there's not enough money in the world that I could have that would have justified me paying 16 million for that card. But remember I have a long history, you know, in the hobby. So I know that chances are there's 39 of them. And one PSA 10, you know, that may have been a marginal 10, but you know, there's gray areas. You know, you can look at a card, you can say, "Well, this Oh, this is almost You know, it's it hits that line, right?" And you can go down or up, right? Uh so, there's only one 10. And I'm not going to I'm not going to certainly not going to say a rip-off because I believe the guy could turn around and get his money back today. So, so no, I don't think definitely don't think it's a rip-off. >> How much would it devalue that card if another PSA 10 came up? >> That would hurt. >> Would it go down from 16 million to like 10 million? Or would it cut it down to like four cuz then people are Because then if another comes out, then it's no longer one of a kind. >> It's no longer one of >> how that works? >> I think the one-of-a-kind aspect gets such a big premium where it's no longer like, "Oh, you don't have the only one." >> Right. >> Yes, I uh that >> Right? You're laughing, Jeff, but it's true. >> Of course it's true. >> That's what I >> You're like, "Well, it makes it less valuable because it's no longer one of one." >> Yeah, that's the idea of the >> I'm just saying. But but but there's a huge premium bump is is the point I'm trying to make. >> I agree. >> Uh-huh. I I understand. >> one-of-one makes it pretty special. If it was no longer a one-and-one, it would devalue it. No question about it. >> much? >> But the market cap would would it would increase. It wouldn't go down to half and it's exactly the same market cap of PSA 10. You know, like the illustrator. >> Do you like there's a chance another one comes out and then all of a sudden each are worth 4 million and all of a sudden the market cap half >> Yes, I do. Yeah, because personally, I think 16 was too much for the card. I I think to me, it's probably an 8 to 10 and 1/2 million dollar card. >> that were willing to pay 16 for it, which is >> Yeah, but those but those are institutional people who are going to try to fractionalize it and that was their marketing expense cuz they got a ton of eyeballs on it. That to me is worth 6 million bucks. Free marketing. So, the card could be worth 10 and then they put 6 million in marketing dollars behind it. >> Yeah. Of course, I've talked to Logan about this and he was hoping to double his money. You know, he got in the area 5 million. He was hoping to get 10 million. I don't know if he mentioned that on I did watch your podcast with him. Which, by the way, I thought was tremendous. >> Thank you. >> Great podcast. And Logan came across tremendously. I had to text him and tell him, "God God, I said you came across so well." I I said, "Why >> You told him that he did a good job. >> Oh, I told him he did a good job. But, he not only did a good job, he did a tremendous job. And you guys were out of sight. I mean, I I wish I would have been sitting right there when you interviewed him so I could have heard the whole thing. >> Thank you so much. >> But, he was hoping to double his money. And you know, with Logan, you you know, you get that effect, you know, the increase, you know, value effect, you know, because it is Logan. Uh Now, the chances of another one coming out are I don't think I didn't think one would ever come out. And that one was a nine and they cross-graded it, you know, and got a 10. It didn't have to They didn't have to cross-grade it when it was a nine and then there would be zero 10s, right? But, there's only 39 There's only 39 in the world. And they've all pretty much come out and they've all been graded and they've all graded less than 10. So, if another one came out, I'd be shocked in that. But, I I want to give you a little context with the PSA 10 first edition base Charizards. When I did that Pawn Stars, that's 2016, 10 years ago, there were 123 PSA 10 first edition base Charizards. Today, there's 124 or maybe 125 knockoff Logans. You know, in other words, the population has not increased in 10 years. And that in these, there were more than 39 made. You know, there there was, you know, a thousand, you know, a thousand made. And uh so it's I would not I would not be afraid of something like that happening if I were the one to purchase it from Logan. Uh And I should tell you something else. The one that Logan bought from me, the PSA 10, your first edition base, I wanted that card when he got a 10 because I had at that time the only two in the world. And now he got the third one. I wanted it really, really bad. I was willing to overpay for it. And and uh he came he came up and met me here you know, about other stuff, you know, just family stuff and that. Uh but I told him I said, "I want that card really bad." He said, "Gary, you could offer to trade me your two BGS 10 first edition base Charizards for my one, and I wouldn't do it. That card is going to my grave with me." And that and I know that could sound, you know, yeah, right, you know. But he did sell the illustrator. He's done a lot of transactions in the these last five years or however long that's been. And he still has that card, and he never talks about it. He never shows it. He uh that card is his personal holy grail [clears throat] in that. So, you know, that that kind of tells you how hard, number one, how hard it is to achieve those grades, but number two, how much they can mean to a person. And they mean a lot and that's why I liked your podcast with him so much because that all came across. His his love and his passion for Pokémon came across. Has he had problems? Has he made mistakes and all that? Of course, you know. I mean, in my 72 years I never made a mistake. >> [snorts] >> Uh so but he's sincere when it comes to that. I want to tell you one other thing just to get off the Logan thing after this. Uh about because people don't know him very well. They know what he wants you to know, right? >> Mhm. >> And he plays things up and he, you know, it's all the wrestling, you know, I got to tell you an awful lot of it is just acting in that because I I have seen how he really is. And just to give you one quick example then then I can get off him. Uh when he came to my house with about six, seven, eight people or something, he made sure that every single one did not use a curse word. He said, "I don't want you cursing in front of Gary." >> [snorts] >> And that, you know, no not that I even care, right? But just out of respect for some reason uh because he's never heard me swear cuz I never have in that. But I don't object to anybody being who they are and doing what they want, all right? >> When's the last time you said the F word? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. Graham and I are literally always traveling for the podcast and in fact these past few weeks have been very brutal. 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From there, it is one monthly price with unlimited payroll runs with no hidden fees and no surprises. If you're ready to join 400,000 other small businesses, try Gusto today at gusto.com/iced and get 3 months free when you run your first payroll. Again, that is 3 months of free payroll at gusto.com/iced. One more time, that is gusto.com/iced with the link down below in the description. When's the last time you said the F-word? >> I've never said the F-word. >> No, are you serious? Ever? >> Never have. >> Even in like a fit, someone cuts you off in the freeway, you're like, "Oh!" >> [laughter] >> Just let it loose. >> No, I I would even hate to tell you what I say cuz it's so corny because but >> then? I don't say I don't say the Yeah. That's [laughter] what you say? >> Then no no, but I'm not >> say when someone cuts you off? What do you say when someone cuts you off in the freeway and you're upset? What do you yell out? >> silent and let my eyes turn red, I guess. I uh I you know, in in my in my day in my day with my parents, we just simply didn't swear and weren't allowed to swear. And uh And but again, now I'm making it sound so corny because I don't care if people swear, right? It means it doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever. Uh I just don't do it myself. And just the fact that he would, you know, go out of his way to make sure they didn't in front of me was just uh cuz he knew I didn't swear in that, but I didn't swear because it's just not a part of me. Uh But I don't mind if he does or you do or But you know, come to think of it, I've never heard either one of you two swear. >> [laughter] >> We We believe in it. >> generally big cursers. >> So, and and one other thing, it obviously Logan is someone unfortunately where if you defend him, you just get completely excoriated and people hate you online. >> Right. >> I'm not going to sit here and be dishonest. Like, my experiences with Logan, I have nothing bad to say. Like, he when we filmed our podcast with him before, during, and afterwards, he was incredibly patient. He like uh to me he great moral character. Like, he invited us into his home. He was very friendly, sharing, caring, and obviously I tell people this that are already skeptical of Logan, like my friends or whatever. I'm like, "Yeah, he was great." They're like, "Of course you're going to say that because you're filming a podcast with him, so he's going to put his best foot forward, and he doesn't want you guys saying negative things about him online." I'm like, "That sounds like guilty until proven innocent." >> Yes, right. >> in 2020, we met him, and I picked up a a Pokémon card from him. >> Uh-huh. >> And he was I remember that. Yes. >> so nice. And he even met him in 2016 at the gym, 24-Hour Fitness in Hollywood. Super nice. I went up to him because I had seen his videos just starting to pop up online. And he was so nice. >> Mhm. >> When someone invites me into their personal house, and we're standing in the kitchen there, all talking on the island, and >> got his shirt off, by the way. >> yeah. >> Yeah, shock. >> All right, well, we don't need to go that far cuz now what people are going to say, "Oh, well, look at you guys Yeah, yeah. But [laughter] >> And his bird is mocking us. >> Yeah, right. >> And his bird is there, and his bird poops on the ground, and his wife is walking around with a baby in her arms. It's like, that's just a normal >> To me, everything I saw was like indicative of just a normal, happy family, and the bird poops, and then he's like, "Oh, okay, yeah. Let me Oh, no, no, you don't you don't worry about it. I'll clean it up." Like >> Mhm. >> I don't know. >> Well, you know, I could show you I could show you my texts with him, right? I could show you my texts with him. The majority of them are baby pictures, just to give you an idea. >> All right, so we got to circle back to the finance aspect of it. >> Yes. >> Do you worry that the hobby is becoming too much of a business? >> Yeah, I I think it's inevitable. You know, I I just think that that's how things go, and I don't mind it at all in that. I mean, it's uh it's increased the interest. You have people going back on their collections on their that were worth next to nothing. Now they're worth money. Now they go to shows. Now they, you know, sell to to younger people who don't have them and just think it's a it's a steady increase in interest and it's just a part of it and I think it it helps. I know everybody talks about scalpers and I mean I can't see myself waiting in line or anything or you know bowling over people trying to get a a box and that I can't see it. You know I I I I don't like seeing that but that that's all a part of the the cycle and I think it's important to the hobby and that uh so it doesn't it doesn't bother me. That doesn't bother me at all. Let's take the average person out there, a viewer watching this right now. What cards should they buy if they want to get the highest return on investment? The newer sets are being uh printed uh just printed by crazy. They're doing you know extra runs and all that. I still think vintage WotC era I still think are probably I know right now you're going to pretty much pay for what you get and get what you pay for you know whether it's vintage or modern. uh Long term I think vintage is going to outperform modern. uh even though a lot of the modern sets even though I'm not personally you know really up on them but is there like 10,000 Pokémon now or something? I just simply don't have the time to you know to keep up plus they're doing four five sets a year and having to do you know this I don't have personally have time for that but I know that they're over printing most of them and for good reason. You know I mean they're in the you know TPCI is in the business to make money. You know they're and so they're going to try to maximize you know their their profits and uh and they're doing a good job and still the demand is is uh outperforming the what's available. So >> But most viewers out there are going to look to see what you're buying. Okay, he's buying base set PSA 10 first edition Charizards. They don't have the budget for that. So like and they can't buy a part of it, right? Or maybe they can, but let's be real here. People want the actual card. >> Yes. >> What cards should they be buying if they have a budget of say $10,000? >> Well, you know, something something that has has I think outperformed the market steadily all these years are Pikachus and Charizards in that >> So any Pikachu and Charizard? >> Pikachus and Charizards even stuffed animals, you know, a Pikachu. Even I mean, I was at a I was in Scottsdale, Arizona last week for a show and this lady had these little tiny miniature uh vintage Pokémon that were made with 3D What do you call it? 3D print printing thing? And that little tiny Eevee's and little tiny Pikachus and all that in her hand. And I I I kept it for about a half hour going through everyone trying to get the entire set just like I always have done in that uh but the Pikachus, there was only one left. Everybody was picking Pikachus even today. So I would say Charizards and Pikachus in these modern sets are probably the smartest. >> And before what year? >> Even even if you get the new set that just came out or the first set 27 years ago it first came out, the Pikachu on both of them I think are are a good investment. I really do. >> What do you think is the most undervalued card today? >> The base set trainers I think are undervalued because nobody, if you weren't collecting sets, you weren't collecting trainers, you know, you weren't super energy removal or item finder, you know, those guys uh had absolutely zero individual interest. So, but nowadays nowadays people are going back and trying to complete those sets and those cards were always the ones that were not treated the best, you know, they were you know, played and thrown around and not protected, you know, you didn't waste a penny sleeve and a top loader on a on an item finder. Uh so finding those in good condition, I think, is uh is a pretty is pretty much undervalued now. >> And what do you think is the most overvalued Pokémon card? >> I mean, I would hate >> [laughter] >> I would hate to say that illustrator. Uh no, I I don't really have an answer to that. They're I mean, they things you know, things are you know, worth what they're worth and uh what are they over what are people overlooking? Maybe a lot of the girl trainers are being overlooked in that. And uh and then a lot of the guy trainers are kind of over overvalued. >> What is the most valuable card ever, in your opinion? >> I would say the first edition base Charizards. >> Let's say outside of Pokémon, what's the most valuable card ever? >> Yeah, well, that T206 card is I think is you I I remember when the Kings owner, the Bruce McNall and and Wayne Gretzky, right? Those two when they and they had their, you know, they I'd say that's probably the most valuable card. I can tell you uh kind of an interesting story. I went to UCI, you know, that was my school, you know, I went to college there. And our crosstown rival, which you guys would know very well, was USC. Uh well, at the time O.J. Simpson was the running back and the Heisman Trophy winner and the number one pick overall and an an an incredible player. Uh again, I was already had some age on me and I was already a collector and I grabbed every single rookie card of O.J. Simpson's I could find. I mean, I I had handfuls of O.J. Simpson you know, Topps rookie cards in that and like you know, the troubles he had in the mid-90s, my amazing valuable collection of O.J. Simpson cards just went down to nothing. And that's why I've always appreciated Pokémon. You know, a Charizard's never going to he's never going to do anything, you know, bad. You know, that's going to affect his value. Uh with those with those it was safe and that even the Star Trek cards, I mean, I have all the Star Trek cards from the 70s and you know, I collected all the way through the 60s, the 70s, complete all those sets. Addams Family, Munsters, all every single one. I have at least two sets of everything uh that I know of unless so something slipped by without my ever hearing about it. I mean, that that was that was, you know, pretty bad when that happened with O.J. Simpson and so it kind of made me a little bit leery. I kind of got out of sports you know, sports card collecting after that, especially being the junk era, you know, of the 90s, you know, with with uh sports cards. And uh today I do collect some Shohei Ohtani cards in that and you know, which have done very well, you know, especially recently uh just because he was a real phenomenon and another thing from Japan that transfers over well, you know, very well, very good. >> You know what I really wanted to collect are the old Mars Attacks cards from the 1950s. >> Love those. Yeah. >> For some reason, I don't think they've ever gotten any appreciation, but I love the movie. I'm a fan of the the cards, Danny Elfman, Tim Burton, all of that, and I think having those old cards in the 1950s would be incredible. >> Especially for you because you actually have an attachment outside of that. You want that. It's not like you got it and now you love it. You want that. So, >> I'm thinking though >> bring those in and >> if if I'm interested in that, there's got to be a whole bunch of other people who was like, "Ah, that's kind of cool." And I I tend to think, cuz this is what always happens to me. There's something I I want and it's a little too much for me to want to buy it. I don't buy it and then it like 10x's in value. And I'll give you a few examples. Andre Jik came to me and this is early 2020 and he was saying, "Dude, I'm thinking about buying a first edition base set Charizard." I said, "How much are those?" He's like, "50 grand." I was like, "Oh, wow, that's that's a lot of money." He's like, "Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure." And I was looking on eBay and I see a few listed 50, 55, and I'm like, "That's a car. I'm good." And then now they're worth 500 grand. And then I started looking and saying, "Okay, well, if these cards have shot up in value for the PSA 10s, the one that I think is undervalued at the time was the PSA 10 Japanese base set." And I said, "Why wouldn't that be worth a significant amount of money, too?" Because that was before the English. That was even earlier as a PSA 10. >> That's the rookie card. >> That that is the card. And I remember they were selling on eBay for $2,000. And I wanted to buy one under $2,000, so I feel like I could get a deal. And I was bidding on one on the drive home and it got to 1,900 on eBay. I had typed in like 1,975, so I can get it under two grand. And it sold for like 1,980. Someone sniped it at the end for an extra like $5 above me. I was just pissed off. And then I said, "Okay, what's the one better than that?" It was the no rarity symbol PSA 10 Japanese Charizard. And those at the time were selling for 20,000 or 25,000 dollars. And I thought to myself, "Why are they selling so cheap?" And I looked at the pop reports and I saw how rare they are, but I'm like, "That's That's a car. I'm not going to do it." And now they're worth I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> The no rarity one is out of sight. >> Yes. >> Yeah, and even the base the regular base one, what are they selling for? >> 10 to 15,000, okay? >> So I tend to think I I'm like early to a lot of these things and if I'm looking at these Mars Attacks cards that are so obscure, I can't help but think, "Is this just another mistake that I'm making by not buying them?" >> Right. Well, I know they were popular when I was a kid. You know, they were popular. Were they Pokémon popular? No, but nothing's ever been, right? You can't gauge things against Pokémon, what's happened with them. But uh I mean, they're great cards. I don't have them myself. You know, I think they started before I started collecting cards. I think my first card set was 1964 maybe and that was uh Munsters, if I remember right. >> What do you think is the biggest mistake that you made when building your collection? >> Probably my lack of interest in Japanese cards in the very beginning. I I had opportunities to buy all the trophy cards. I mean, I would say maybe two, three dozen of the rarest promo Japanese promo cards go through my hands at one time or another in 1998, 1999, 2000. They went through my hands, I had them and I just didn't have an interest in them. Uh I wish I would have shown more of an interest in the Japanese releases in the very beginning. Yes, I you can imagine what I would have if I had done that. >> What do you think is the biggest lie that people tell themselves about investing in Pokémon? >> Maybe overspending on modern sets, on newer sets. You know, it's not like there's uh there's only 15,000 produced, you know, like 27 years ago. I mean, now there's a million produced. And all those cards are going to be coming out. You know, they're all going to be making it out there in the future. Uh may maybe uh putting too much reliance on an on an uptick in value of the modern sets. >> I'm curious for your own collection, how do you make sure it stays safe? >> Well, I have uh like like I've told you, five storage lockers. Three of them are security storage lockers, you know, where there is no getting in and out. I I only have one safe deposit box, interestingly enough, uh with the very very most valuable cards. Uh my storage lockers uh are everything is secure. My house, I keep almost nothing at home, you know, in my house. Plus, I have security gates, special security gates and cameras everywhere. If they did, because I do have some non-Pokémon things that mean a lot to me. And um so I I don't have any concern about, you know, any because it's a good question because people are robbing stores, they're breaking glass, and they're you know, they're they're doing all this because the value has increased so much, it's it it's worthwhile for thieves to go after them. I'm have absolutely zero concern of that happening to me. >> Also, you have PSA identification, where if your cards were stolen, people would would able to know exactly when those cards were getting resold on the market. >> necessarily that though, but what if there's damage or like a mega fire breaks out or something like that? Is there no insurance? >> Yeah. Yeah, no, there's no insurance. There's no insurance that would be any good anyway. I know companies try to tell you differently, it's not true. But based on what Jack said, uh I had two cards stolen. I was at a show in uh Denver, Denver, Colorado. And I brought cards for the kids to hold, you know, to when they take pictures with me and that they can hold the card and almost none have ever seen one in person, but this time in Denver, I brought a BGS 9.5 first edition base Charizard and a BGS 9.5 shadowless Charizard and that those are the two cards I brought to let the kids hold on to and look at and take pictures with them. And um don't ask me how, they got stolen. >> Wow. >> Those two cards got stolen. At the time we're talking, you know, over 50,000 >> Yeah. >> in value. I never told anybody. I did contact the police and told them. I never mentioned it on a podcast. I never said a thing. Twan, my wife, was the only one who even knew it happened. And and it uh it just broke my heart that it would happen. Uh 6 months later, I got a phone call from uh a friend of mine, apparently, not really you know, kind of a friend in Los Angeles who I had my phone number, so I must have had a uh transaction with him in the last couple decades or something. And uh he said, "Gary, uh these two" he sent pictures. He said, "You know, did these cards used to be in your collection?" And I said, I said, "Yeah, those were the two cards that were stolen from me in Denver, Colorado 6 months ago. He said, "Well, I just bought them. A guy a a store in New Jersey contacted me and I you know I just bought them. And uh and they're shipping them to me overnight. Already shipped." I said, I said, "Don't plan on getting them. You know, I said it's not uh you know very unlikely you're going to open the box going to be nothing in there or something." Uh that next morning they came in. He opened them up and they were in there. And I'll tell you the ironic part of it. Uh I said he called me and I said "You really got them?" I said, "Yeah, those those were my cards." So he said, "Well, I want you to have them back." And so I said, "Okay." Uh I contacted PayPal. Actually he contacted PayPal. I contacted the police department. They got together within 3 days. Uh I had uh he drove up, gave me those two cards. He got his money back from PayPal. It was tens of thousands. I can't remember how much it was. The ironic part of it is one of those two cards had my autograph on the slab on the plastic and Chumlee's autograph on the plastic. All the thief would have had to do was take them out and no one ever would have known this. This thief was such an idiot that he that he did not take them out of the slabs. And so people fortunately know my collection, right? >> Was the person that sold your friend these two cards the person that stole the cards from you? >> They wouldn't tell. I did try to find out. I did try to find out. They wouldn't tell me. >> Uh if >> that's the like you mean they being the police or like you reached out to this card shop in New Jersey? >> I reached out to the back to the police and tried to find out what, you know, what the story might because of the investigation and and it was a large amount. Uh I there was no way for me to find that out and whether it was this that store or somebody sold that store it because either way, if somebody sold it to them, they took a big hit in that. When I got the cards back and I I gave a real real nice bonus to the guy who was honest. He never had to say a word to me, right? Every time I would look at those two cards at any point, even if it was pictures on the internet or every time I saw I would get a a feeling in my stomach, kind of a sick feeling in my stomach uh because it reminded me of of that horrible thing that happened and uh I understand maybe I'm too too sensitive in that, but that you know, that's how I am. Every time I saw them, I would just feel sick to my stomach. So, I ended up selling those two cards back to that guy Oh, wow. for pretty much the price he had paid before. But then, I got the cash. So, you know, I I came out okay. Of course, I wish I had those two cards today because they'd be worth a lot more today, but uh but yeah, that that's what that's the one time I was I was stolen, you know, that I got robbed and how it happened I don't know. >> If someone has $10,000 today and they want to invest in Pokémon cards, what cards should they buy? >> I I think the the uh PSA 9s, I think are gaining a lot of credibility, you know, these days, especially after seeing so many of those PSA 9s can be cross-graded in the 10s in that like with the illustrator Logan's illustrator in that. Uh I I would say I would say a PSA 9 base set is what I would start working on. PSA 9 holo base set holo is what what I would start. >> So, I'm curious as a long-term collector, how do you separate something that is going to be around for a long time and be collectible for a long time versus something that's just hyped today? >> Also, really quick, I just want to say that when Jack and I first started the Ice Coffee Hour, we had to figure out everything ourselves. From the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to find guests, every day was a brand new challenge. That is why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is, and that would be Shopify. Shopify is just like having an all-in-one business partner. They support millions of businesses worldwide from major brands like Chubbies and Gymshark to people just getting started. Here's a fun fact, if you've shopped online in the US, there's a really good chance it was through Shopify because, I kid you not, they handle about 10% of all American e-commerce. 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Thanks again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. >> So, I'm curious as a long-term collector, how How separate something that is going to be around for a long time and be collectible for a long time versus something is just hype today? >> [clears throat] >> Well, well again, I think it has to do with our you know, with our young people, with the kids. You know, what what they love is collecting is is retrieving memories and uh the the better the memories, the better the the item's going to do in the future. I think a a good example outside of that is the 1990s Beanie Babies. You know, that was all of our mothers and you know, little kids and collect their Beanie Baby and they might have a few, right? Uh But two things that went wrong since I mentioned Beanie Babies is number one, uh the disreputable ownership of that company cuz as soon as something did great, you know, they would print print print print print, get all the money as fast as possible. Even with like the Princess Diana, you know, Beanies, you know, which were valuable in that uh the fellow did the same thing with that. Uh but now now we're talking about, you know, adults, adult collecting in that if they were things that were around or of interest to us as kids, those things are safe. >> Do you ever think Beanie Babies will be worth money in the future? >> Never. It never deserved to be. Uh and it's all because of the ownership. Beanie Babies could have could have been, you know, real close to on par with Pokémon. They really they really could have been cuz it was a terrific idea. You know, just little stuffed animals or stuffed animals are tremendous thing for kids and everybody. Little ones that are collectible was a tremendous idea unless you're a greedy owner of it, you know, like the fellow was uh and I mean, he didn't he didn't care that you pay, you know, a 2,500 for a Princess Diana Beanie and then, you know, the prize of your collection you love, you talk about it, you splash photos everywhere and then all of a sudden he does another thousand of them, you know, that takes your 2500, you know, you know, way down. Pokemon never did anything like that. They never reprinted. You know, some of these modern sets are starting to reprint because of the scalper situations in that because of the because they want the kids to get them in their hands, you know, for a reasonable, you know, price. Uh, but I mean they never did anything like that. So, >> We asked you five and a half years ago when was a good time to buy and you said wait two years. What's your answer today? Because Pokemon saw that huge swing up. >> Yes. >> Should you wait to buy? >> Well, I I would certainly wait until after 20, halfway through 2027. And that's so for the next year, there's going to be enormous, you know, buzz and everything over the 30-year, you know, anniversary. That's going to attract a lot. So, I right now I think things are overpriced. Uh, I I think that's going to continue, you know, for the next year. I I don't think the availability is really that far off. It doesn't really match to me. I think if you wait a year, wait until summer 2027, uh, you know, put those dollars, you know, aside, you know, get your 10%, you know, and then you're going to use those dollars in a year, you know, something like that I would do. >> Got it. Well, in terms of grading, I'm really curious since you helped grade 76 of the last 126 PSA 10 first edition base set Charizards, what was it like in the early days because I did hear that it was easier to grade a 10 back then than it is today. >> Yeah, there there's so much going on with with PSA. Uh I can tell you I never spent more than $7 to grade a card. All my PSA 10 first edition base Charizards, $7 to grade. Every single I mean, I can even show you this. I I don't know if they show prices, but I can show you all my submissions going back for years. And it's thousands and thousands and thousands of cards. I never paid over $7 for one for one grade until a year ago where I sent some in went through this upcharge thing they have and ended up having to pay hundreds more in that. So that was very fortunate. I was able to grade a ton of cards you wouldn't grade today because price in bulk is prohibitive. You know, it is is so high. >> What do you think is the difference between a lot of the grading companies? Because we see PSA, BGS, we see CGC, TAG. Walk us through like what the differences are between these and like what is one better than another? Because I see honestly CGC getting significantly less for the same card than something like PSA. >> Uh see CGC, I have a soft place in my heart for. Uh they helped me with some charity stuff I was doing and uh when they didn't have to, when I feel they were more of a benefit to our charity than I was to them in that. Uh Matt Flynn uh I mean, he he he was he was just, you know, so so so nice to to me. Uh because I Now yes, for him, he would get his he would get the cards with their ti- their title on. He had Collector's Con put on the back. And I would give them away to all the kids at Collector's Cons. Give away thousands of them, right? Uh but he never charged me a nickel for any of them cuz he was interested in autism charities. And that and so what PSA has been going through I would not grade a card through PSA anymore. I just wouldn't. Not until they make a change. Can you imagine you have your Let's say you get the Magic the Gathering cards and or you get, you know, these other Pokémon cards that you love and you send them in and you're so excited to get the cards back and 6 months later you still don't have them. I mean, I've sent things in where I can't even remember what I sent in. Well, what fun is that? You know, the anticipation of the grade and that is the fun part. Uh I would not grade a card through PSA. And not only that, but on uh I I am I'm going to say with confidence Now, I wouldn't do this because of my age. But with confidence I can say that if they turned it over to me within 4 months I would have the turnaround time down to 30 days. And I would have the price per card for bulk back down to $15. I say that with confidence that I personally could do that. Would that affect the bottom line? Yeah, it would affect the bottom line some, but long term you can't always think short term. You know, long term it would pay off. And it but I I honestly believe that I could do that. >> But why do you see such variance between the same card between two grading companies? Like I see a CGC PSA 10 Charizard selling for 100 grand, but the PSA one is like 250. >> Yeah, that's the reputation. You know, PSA is is is the for resellers. You know, that's where the bucks are. Uh is it always going to be that way? Not if they keep doing what they're doing. You know, they're really and I guess you know, they purchased Beckett and they purchased uh SGC. Unless they make a change, that's all going to change. And what I think, CGC I think is is a nice alternative. The best alternative I think is TAG. You can't be more transparent than scanning cards and putting them on your website in that uh plus the guys again, you know, with my heart, I love the guys that are running TAG, especially Jesse and CJ in Canada. I mean, tremendous people, great ideas, really, really, really care about Pokémon and care about the hobby. Uh TAG is growing and it'll continue to grow, but I think that transparency is huge. >> When do you recommend grading a card and if you are going to recommend any card company, I'm guessing it would be TAG? >> I sent in some cards to TAG for the first time showing that I really care about this because I know within 30, 40 days I'm going to get those cards back. And and I know every single card I sent in, I'm so happy about it. You know, nothing major, just fun stuff. Uh yeah, I I would definitely recommend TAG today and PSA better make a change. Otherwise, if I had money in PSA, it would be out today. >> How do you know when to grade a card? >> Well, I I guess it's what you're grading it for. If you're grading it for resale, then uh then the sooner the better because I believe we're at a pretty good high in the market right now. The problem is you do it now, 6 months from now they could be, you know, you know, much lower and now you're losing money because of grading time. Uh now if you're a collector, I think anytime is good because if you're if you're trying to complete a set, you know, to Japanese base set to put on the wall or something, you can wait. You know, you can wait for that. So, uh >> [sighs] >> So, it really depends on what you're doing it for. >> One thing I brought up to Logan when we had him on the podcast was regrading because I see a lot of videos pop up in my feed of someone receiving a card. They're like a regrading artist. And they get the card, they like push the sides down, they clamp it, they even can like paint on the card sometimes. And I think to myself, why do I not invest in a PSA 7, PSA 6, and then just wait for the card repair to get involved with AI or whatever it is that takes it to the next level, hold on to this card until card repair becomes immaculate, and then just get it regraded as a PSA 10 and sell it then. >> The most I ever did with uh cards, you know, many times in binders cards are curved, right? And I would put those cards between glass and that and leave them there for a couple weeks, you know, so they would flatten out then I put them back in the binder and they wouldn't be, you know, curved and that. So, I used to call that those two pieces of glass my Pokémon hospital. >> Yeah. >> Which is kind of like altering cards, right? But when I got them, when I pulled them, they were flat, then put them in a binder for some reason the hollows curve, put them back to curve them. Uh but with what they're doing now, my concern is is it long-term. You know, you can fix those sides. I've seen these for three decades what's happened to these cards, uh the curve comes back, or maybe the correction they're making comes back, or the painting that they're doing that matches the paint can be determined, or in the future maybe it would be determined, you know, uh you know, with a special light or something. >> AI is going to get better on both sides. >> Yeah, on both sides. That's what I mean. >> And it's also probably grade dating, as well. And what I wonder is like is a PSA because you said Graham, it's easier to get a PSA 10 a decade ago than it is today cuz they've gotten more strict. So then does it make it more or less valuable to get something that was PSA 10 10 years ago cuz it could suggest the card is actually in worse condition, but at the same time you know it hasn't been tampered with. >> Yeah, well, uh I I would think the condition of the cards were better back then. Uh outside of grading them in that because they were closer to the time when they were pulled, right? You know, back then we pulled them, graded them right away in that. So they were uh these are the same cards we're talking about, but 20 years later. So why would a card 20 years later uh if it's pulled out of a pack today compared to 20 years ago pulled out of a pack, why would this one be better? You know, they wouldn't be. They'd be the same in that, but if I had to answer that honestly, I would say overall they were easier on grading back then. Mainly because I don't think they took the time to they weren't that big of a deal back then. Remember, I was paying $7 a card, right? Maximum. Some submissions I was paying $4.50 a card, I remember, in that, instead of minimum 25 today. >> How many cards come out of the pack as a PSA 10? >> Maybe a third. >> Wow. >> 11 card if it was a base set, you know, 11 cards, maybe three, you know, something like that. >> And in terms of regrading, when you were on our podcast last time, you had mentioned you had the only two BGS 10s >> Yes. >> and a third popped up. >> Yes. >> And you were confused who had the third. >> Yes. >> Turned out Logan Paul had the third >> Yes. >> that he bought from you as a PSA 10 and he cracked it and regraded and you had mentioned that you had tried to regrade this card in the past >> I did. >> and it never came back but Logan was able to regrade. >> Yes. >> any idea what happened? >> Well, I know why. The reason is I don't have 20 million followers. [laughter] That's the reason why. Because that card was gray area. You know, nine, maybe nine, maybe 10. It was it was right. It was a gray area card. I gave him like eight of them to pick one. Which one do you want? You know, here's eight of them. Pick which one you want. He went and he looked and he looked and he looked. He never once turned the card around to look at the back. He looked at the fronts of all eight of them and he said "This is it. You know, this one is redder." The color was more red or saying never turn around see if there's little white speck here or little white speck here which some 10s do, of course. But then he uh he cracked it you know, with his 10 snips, right? And he did it all by himself, had never cracked a case before. One little plastic shard could hit it cost him 100,000 or something uh But then he uh when I took mine in, they were for reviews or they were for crossovers. In other words, I went with Lee Stienfeld uh Leonhart and >> I cuz he's in Dallas and Beckett was in Dallas. And so him and I took about 20 cards over to see if we could cross grade any to a Beckett 10. They didn't cross any of them over. Uh but that one that Logan got he instead of trying to cross it over he cut it out and sent it in. And uh did it deserve a 10? Yeah, I think it deserved a 10 if if he didn't do any damage to it when he cracked it. >> you could have done that, but you didn't want to crack open the case. >> Boy, cracking cracking open a PSA 10, especially a valuable first edition base no, I I'm not that stupid. >> [laughter] >> How would you do it? >> I asked Logan. I said >> How How >> I said how could you >> Mhm. >> cut it He said, "Gary, I'm a maverick." >> I knew I literally thought he's going to say, "I'm an athlete." That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's what he said. He said, "Gary, I'm a maverick." I said Okay, not very bright. >> [laughter] >> Because you don't do that. You know, you can't you can't do that. >> How did >> You just paid 150,000 for this card and now So >> And there was also a chance that he could have pulled it out and it got a nine. >> Oh, absolutely. It I think it was maybe more likely. Yeah, but he took it to Beckett and Beckett you know, him and his Because it was a marginal 10. I'm not saying it wasn't a 10. I believe it was. But it hit that gray area. >> Were you upset that he got that 10? >> Another great question. He didn't talk to me for 2 months after that. Cuz he was afraid I'd be upset about it. And finally he came up to visit. We met at the DeBruce warehouse. You know, just uh brought stuff to mess around with and uh he said, "Gary, I was really afraid that you that that you know, you'd be mad that I cracked it and I got the Beckett 10." And I told him, I said, "I couldn't be more happy for you than that." I said, "I tried to cross it over. I never ever ever would have tried again." But I tried to cross it over myself, didn't work. You did it, you're a friend. I'm I'm happy for you in that." He said, "Oh, I'm so glad to hear that." He said, "I've been avoiding talking to you because I was afraid of how you'd feel about it." Once again, in my opinion, showing, you know, the character, you know, that he has. So. >> Do you find that some celebrity cards, though, just grade a little higher? Like >> Do they ever know at PSA that like, "Hey, this is just throwing out a name, this is Justin Bieber's PSA 10 Charizard. It would be real nice to give him a 10. It's maybe a nine, but let's give him a 10." Or like, "Yo, this is Drake's Venusaur. Let's >> [laughter] >> let's be real generous with this one." Like, does that happen? >> I do believe so. I hate to say it, >> Yeah. >> but had you asked me a year ago, I would have been more reluctant to say that. But with the way it's been going at PSA, the how disappointed I am in them, in that that one that one didn't surprise me at all because if Joe Blow puts a card on internet, you know, on on Instagram, you know, and shows off, "Oh, I got a 10 on this." You know, maybe 80 people will see it, right? If Justin Bieber does it, 80 million are going to see it. If if would I be tempted myself to give a you know, better grade or to go a little bit higher with Justin's card than with Joe Blow's card? Yeah, I would. So, I I do believe that, yes. >> So, in terms of what PSA's response to that was, >> Mhm. >> there was a whole podcast that I watched recently where a grader said that for vintage cards, it comes in and you have no idea whose name is attached to it and it passes through several people. And it's like the general consensus between four to five people that come to a grade on the card. That's what they said. >> Yeah. >> So, I tend to believe that it's not like Justin Bieber could submit a five and it'll come back a 10. >> No. >> But if it if it's a nine, where it's a little dicey, >> Mhm. >> then that might push it. But what do you say to the fact that they say no, multiple people look at this card independently and it's a general consensus. It's not just some dude who's having a good day or a bad day. He's like, "Ah, it's a 10." >> I would say it would not be hard to fathom that Justin Bieber's card would skip a few of those steps and maybe go straight from the grader to the to the last to the last person and get the you know, the better grade. >> And what about for the average person who's submitting cards to PSA? How much of that is just luck or getting the right guy, it's Friday, he's getting off early for a long weekend, he's in a great mood, >> Mhm. >> and uh he just got a raise and he's like, "You know what? This card is a 10." >> The hu- the human the human side of it, I definitely think plays a part in that. Because there are cards on the fringe. You know, you're going to have a look dead lock beautiful pristine 10 and you're going to have a a weak nine, right? But some of those are going to be on the borderline between nine and 10 and now it's up to the that creator to up it or down it, right? I think most of us feel like we don't get the benefit, you know, the up of it. I don't think I ever got a break. I don't think anybody ever knew which cards were Gary's back those that many years ago. >> Yeah. >> Maybe today if I did cuz now they do all know me, plus they they do my autograph and uh but back then you know, I definitely got no breaks, but I was always fairly satisfied with my results in that. >> What's the darkest side of the high-end Pokémon market that you've been aware of? >> I would say a lot of the lot of the negativity that there is these days. There there's times I don't even want to go on YouTube in that to to see what's going on in that because there used to be like one real negative of influencer, you know, like Michael Rattle Rattle Pokémon, you know, who I respect who I respect a lot. You know, I think he does a good job and I think he's actually good for the hobby, but now there's been a number of people that have followed him, you know, to to try to achieve some type of success that that call their you know, their followers broke Timmy's and you know, thing I I I worked too many years to try to promote the hobby and the positive side, and there's so much negativity now with the scalpers, with negative influencers, with uh you know, stores, you know, stores being broken into. There's too much and it it it it it affects me. It really does affect me unlike ever before. So, I think that's the dark side of the hobby. The hobby has just gotten so big and so valuable that it brings out, you know, all this all this stuff in that and and it's disappointing to me. >> Yeah. One thing I was confused about is in our last podcast, you had mentioned Arita's signature on the Charizard. >> Mhm. >> And I had no idea how big of an issue that would turn into. You had mentioned that his signature doesn't add value to the card. >> Right. >> And that if he were to sign the card itself, it would devalue the card. And people called that out as disrespectful. >> Yes. >> Especially the one girl. >> For those that don't know, Mitsuhiro Arita, he is a Pokémon artist and he has been for many years, still does today. And he drew that original Charizard, that base set Charizard. >> So, how did you handle that pushback against the signature? >> I was kind of not new to life, but I was new to the internet stuff and the effect that things could have. And so, I spoke out about the negativity, you know, when when I saw when I saw that, I responded. Which I have learned since serves absolutely no purpose and only makes things worse in that. But I responded with truth, you know, with facts, you know, saying that I was not disrespecting Arita. I was simply saying that Arita's signature, that at the time he was charging $30 for, uh on a plastic case is not going to add value to a million-dollar card. And if it did, what, $50 increase or something? That's all I was saying and that is 1,000% true then and now. Uh And yet I was I was accused of of disrespecting, you know, Aretha. And and I made it clear that that that that was silly and that the girl was a kook. You know, for saying something like that, right? I just acted the way I would in real life, right? Again, I don't swear, but kook, I'd go that far. >> [laughter] >> So, Jack and I were having a debate. >> Uh-huh. >> How much would it devalue the card if he signed the card itself? >> Okay, now I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that if he signs directly on the card that that would devalue it. Uh I don't think it would. I I No, I I his his signature on the case absolutely means not >> But then why wouldn't you just have him sign every single first edition Charizard that's ungraded? >> Generally, my my feeling my feeling is uh that his signature helps the value of any card that isn't gigantic in value, right? His But then again, now he charges 100 150 for a signature. And understandably, he's got to make a living, right? I totally get it. But I think uh you would have to pay a lot of money if you brought him a stack of Charizards to sign them all, but I think it would help the value on them, absolutely. >> I would almost say >> I'm not disrespecting him either. >> Yeah, I I could say cuz I'm not in the Pokémon I tend to think it would devalue the card. Just Just purely because you you have a surface of something, let's say like an original vintage card. >> Mhm. >> The signature on the card itself, when a signature's so prevalent, I can't see helping the value. If anything, I think that would debase the value from from a value perspective. I think on a newer card, like when Steve Aoki signed my Snorlax, I think sure, that might to a certain degree because it's a Snorlax, but I think if if it were something of substantial value, I think you would look at that and say, "Well, now it's been defaced." It's like signing I said to Jack, it's like signing a Mona Lisa. It's like Elon Musk could sign the Mona Lisa and I don't think that would help the value of the Mona Lisa. But do you think cuz we were talking about this, too. Is there any other signature on a Pokémon card that would increase its value? Like if Elon Musk signed a Pokémon card. If If Steve Jobs signed a Pokémon card. Like what signatures out there would increase the value? >> I increase the value. >> But if you sign a PSA 10 Charizard >> Yes. >> You You think that would increase the value of that card? >> Yeah, I I think when when you start getting to higher values, maybe not at all or not as much. Uh me, I have signed first edition Charizards, but I have no idea what value has happened, you know, with those. >> The card itself or something? >> Oh, yeah. Numerous times. >> Old or new? >> Old ones. Yeah, original base set first edition Charizards. >> ever tell them like, "Yo, you might not want like you might want to want me to sign this card. It's It's a Unless it's like a PSA one like >> I don't think I ever have. I don't I don't think I've ever tried to discourage. I I have never in my life uh charged for a signature. Okay? I I Everything I do is free. >> Yeah. >> And that uh Have I ever advised that? I don't think I've ever said, "This is going to hurt the value." I just don't think too much along along those lines, I guess. I uh Like would Logan sign a illustrator, right? I think with unrelated people signing cards, I don't think those necessary if they're value value cards of any type of value, I don't think that that would help at the very least. I think that could hurt. Elon Musk signing a first edition base Charizard, I can't see that being a good thing. Uh certainly his signature PSA would authenticate my signature. Every single grading company authenticates. They all have me in their files. Uh and it helps the value of almost everything I sign for the people, which you can go on eBay and see right now cuz I don't charge for it, right? Uh but that's for lower value cards. So, >> Yeah, you know what does help? I'm going to tell you. Kabuto King. When he signed that first edition Kabuto, I think it sold for $50,000. Was it $50,000? >> Yeah, that >> His signature increased the value and that was a one-on-one. >> Good for him. >> [laughter] >> Jeez. >> For those unaware, by the way, he's collecting every single first edition Kabuto and said those are like under-appreciated cards and he has a collection of like 2,000 of them. And you could submit your first edition Kabuto and he will give you back a non-first edition signed. >> I I think it I think it was uh uh an excellent marketing strategy. I really do. >> But I don't think he's marketing anything. I think he just generally likes Kabuto. >> get them. Yeah. He's trying to get them and uh uh the population of what's available is definitely going down uh cuz he's trying to get them all. I just think it's a great idea what he's doing on a on a marketing business level. Uh on a personal level, uh I There were an awful lot of Kabutos made, so I don't know how that would affect it. >> Another thing that came up that I'm really curious and I wanted to ask you about, is I saw this video. Graham and I were talking about this before this podcast, where you were unboxing a base set and you're pulling it out of the side of the box. >> Right. >> And then I read the comments and everyone in the comments are like, "Holy cow, he's trying to devalue these cards when he's pulling it out." And I looked at the video and it does look, like transparently, it looks like when you're pulling it out you're being rather aggressive. Like I would not be surprised if something could have happened based off the way you were unboxing it. And I'm curious, what was like what was the idea behind that or lack of idea, I guess. Or what was what do you respond to those that are saying that? >> Yeah, I got absolutely murdered over that. >> Yeah, I mean >> I got absolutely murdered over that. And I This is a good a good place to explain the story. Uh it was during a a podcast with Steve Steve Aoki. And uh he was selling the card the packs out of that box. Uh they wanted to preserve the box though and the best way to do that is to slice the side and then hopefully gently take the packs out and then when you're finished you have an empty box with the shrink wrap almost perfectly around it keeping it which is uh I I've done that. I have some boxes like that, right? The problem was I was being rushed, you know, behind the camera, right? The guys were saying, you know, you know, "Hurry up. You know, you know, get get them out of there." And that and and I got a little bit flustered. And and so I I quickly, you know, tried to get them out which made it look absolutely horrible. And and I admit that and I'm terribly sorry I had to do it like that but I was being directed to because was getting them, selling them. I had to get the get them out of there. It wasn't easy to fit them out out of that thing. The good part of it is we graded those, Steve graded those as part of what he was doing. And uh we got 40, I think it was 48% 10s. Wow. So, they were all they were unaffected by my apparent mishandling of them. They were totally unaffected, uh which was a good thing, cuz nobody who received those packs complained about anything. They were all very, very happy. But, did it look bad? It looked absolutely >> Like when you watch that when you watch that video. Yeah, I'm sure it hurts you also as an investor of like like these cards. >> Yeah, well, people said that you did that to like keep the value of your collection high. >> silly that it's not >> Cuz then now you have all the 10s. >> As if I care, you know, at and there might the odds are that there might be a Charizard inside that box in between other cards that wouldn't be affected by that anyway. Uh oh, I know that's absurd. That that was a silly one. >> Well, I don't think it's absurd. I think it like it makes the ins- like you said, the incentives are aligned in the same way that PSA would happily grade Justin Bieber's card a 10, not like a nine, cuz like it's more publicity. The same thing goes for like if you own a bunch of these things, it would make sense when you're pulling it out to like to scratch up the card. To So, I wouldn't say it's absurd, but I also understand your perspective of like if you're sitting up there and you're getting rushed and you have all of these things going on. Like obviously, it's it's going to be extremely hard to be ex- very attentive and sensitive to the cards. >> It's not absurd that somebody would do it, right. It's very absurd that I would do it. That that's that's kind of that's kind of what I meant, because I I have 52 PSA 10s and I wasn't and I've had those 52 PSA tens for 20 years. I'm not selling them. I don't care about value. I never even look at the pop reports. >> I agree. I mean, you could have you could have made a lot of money more money in Pokémon or at least got some cash and like lived a lavish life. So, it's it I 100% agree. It does not sound like you're doing it for the money whatsoever. And when I watched that video for the first time, I'm like, "Look, knowing everything I know about Gary, this was this was not planned out." Like, he did not Of course. >> So, they might think something like And if I looked at it with a neutral eye, I would think how cringey is this? I would have felt the same way as they do. >> Are you still the number one collector of Pokémon in the world? >> Yeah, I I don't think there's any question about that because uh the majority of my my my collection my Pokémon collection from Watsi's are very unknown to to anybody in that. Maybe there's one or two people in the world that know kind of what my collection really looks like. And the reason the reason I don't advert Yes, the Charizards, those I did put out there on the Pawn Stars. Uh but my collections, I don't put out there because I've always tried to help the hobby, and I think that would hurt the hobby. If people if people knew how many of such and such I had, it could affect uh market values in that. And so, I'm And the last thing I would want to do is hurt the hurt the hobby. I would rather burn those than put them out there and hurt, you know, him him him and her, you know, uh the value of their cards. So, yeah, it's very very much a fact I have the most valuable Pokémon collection in the world. There's absolutely no question about that at all. And someday someday, you know, maybe that that'll get out. You know, I'm kind of fortunate that my family lives forever. They all live in their 90s and 100s. I'm going to last easily another 20 years or more. Uh I'm not uh I don't want to do anything between now and then to hurt the hobby. >> Would you sell me a PSA 10 Shadowless Charizard? >> Yeah, I won't I won't uh >> Is is there a price or something we could work out? >> No. No. Don't don't think I don't get asked all the time. >> What about any other non-Charizard card? >> If if I needed the money if there was a health issue or a family member health issue or if I needed the money, I would sell everything I own. You know, for you know, for someone's you know, a family member or something like that. Uh I'm you know, fortunately I'm not in that position where I have to you know, would have to sell anything. So I have bulk stuff that I'll sell to friends. I have sold bulk stuff that means absolutely nothing to me in quantity but only to good friends. Uh >> You're not a good friend. You're an average You're an average friend. >> want boxes and boxes and boxes of bulk from me. Uh but uh TCA Gaming, Rusty I sold him a ton of bulk in that. And because he's a lifelong friend of mine and and he's one of one of the most, you know, precious people in the world as far as I'm concerned. Uh Zach Browning from Gem Mint Pokémon Him I sold a ton of bulk to also in that. And those are the only two sales I've made. At least that come to mind right now. Uh that uh that I've given up. And that it was only to friends and it was only cards I didn't care about. >> And where do you see the hobby heading over the next 10 years? >> Well, I certainly think the hobby is very very safe. And uh maybe more than safe. You know, I don't see, you know, from 1999 that progression is just constantly going up and it's going to go up for at least the next 15 years, I believe. Uh you know, when our 15-year-olds and our 10-year-olds are 25 and 30. Uh it's totally safe. And uh you know, it's Pokemon's unprecedented. You know, there's uh there's been little tips, little cues here and there business-wise over the last couple decades. Uh yes. But overall, it's unprecedented. Uh number one media franchise uh in the history of the world, right? But there's little determined, you know, little determined things, things that you can go by. Uh the hobby is as safe as can be in my opinion for the next 10, 15 years easily. And it's probably going to go a lot longer than that. I mean uh you know, why do people still talk about Jordan's 1986 rookie? Why do people talk about Mickey Mantle's 1952 rookie? Why do people talk about you know, you know, cards going back, you know, the early baseball in the late 1800s? Uh if I were to say 100 years from now, you'll be talking about Pokemon or God willing any of us are going to are going to be, uh I wouldn't be exaggerating. Pokemon is safe. >> So, this I bought in 2020. It was during one of Logan Paul's box breaks and I ended up getting a pack for $11,000 so I can make a YouTube video on it and he pulled this Gyarados and I was too slow to send it to PSA and then they got inundated and then the wait went to like 6 months to a year and I just held onto it ever since. But, this is the card. I want you to tell me honestly what you think this would grade. >> You know something something really interesting about that time period uh you did not grade it for that reason, right? You did not grade it for that reason. Well, there's tens of thousands of people that are not grading anything for that reason. They don't want to waste 6 months for it. You know, they or they'll send it to a different company in that. So, that's one of the problems with PSA. I did get some calls from Joe Orlando years ago that PSA wanted me to be involved with PSA, but I you know, I didn't. Is it thick, huh? A thick stamp a thick stamp one? >> I'm really nervous cuz I don't know what you're going to say. >> Yeah, can I take it out? Ooh. >> I've ne- I literally it was >> it's never been out. >> It's never been taken out before and I'm like so nervous. >> Well, I I >> It went straight from Logan's hand into the sleeve and it's been in the sleeve ever since. >> Right. Okay, well well I'm I'm not going to I'm not going to take it out. It kind of takes one of the areas the surface >> Yes. >> blemishes that you can't see, but I I can see enough already to to see it's not a 10. >> Why why would you say that? >> Okay, the the top to bottom centering on the front is a little bit off. It might be within their 60/40 parameters. It might be, but these days that doesn't seem to matter to them, you know, those numbers. So, and then on the back, the it's actually really, really nice. The corners and edges, the one little tiny white dot on the top left, but it's not unusual on these to see more than that wrong with it. Okay, not because it's you. You want honest opinion. >> Honest opinion. >> I think it is absolutely a very solid nine. >> Okay. But you don't think there's You don't think there's any chance of it a 10 or you think like, hey, this is probably a nine. >> Mhm. >> You could be honest with me. I'm not going to be >> such a solid nine, you can't take away any possibility of a 10 cuz it's too strong of a nine. And strong nines do get 10s. So, that's what I would say. >> nine. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's probably a nine. Um but it's a it's not just a nine, it's a good nine. >> Okay. >> Now, TAG uses uh uses a something where they tell you how strong of a nine it is or how strong of a 10. Is it in the top 10% top 20% of nines top 50% of nines? This, in my opinion, would come out to be a very strong nine. Does that take away any chance for a 10? Absolutely not. It could absolutely be graded a 10. >> Would you send it to CGC, Beckett, or PSA? >> I would not send anything to PSA these days. Nothing. Uh CGC I would send it to to TAG. >> Okay. >> Because it's fun. You know, it it kind of puts the fun back in grading because you're going to see your card, you're going to see the the pictures they take of it, the in-depth if they say something's wrong, they're going to show you where it is. And that's fun to see, you know. >> Uh plus it's it's good to know you know, where why did they dock it? PSA is not going to tell you why they docked it. And is this card in better shape than Logan's Illustrator 10? This card is in better shape than his 10. So, for what that tells you. >> Anything is possible. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I I would not be surprised if it got a 10 cuz in my opinion it's a very strong nine. >> Okay. For some of these Logan's >> Yeah, signature on the >> is that on the >> It's on the plastic sleeve. >> It's on the sleeve inside. Okay. He he sent me a whole whole bunch of uh security things that he signed. Told me put them on anything I want. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Yeah, very nice. >> some of these restoration services though, why wouldn't I just send it to them? They fix that little spot on the card and then they like maybe shave down a little like on the top or something like that. Like if they're getting good enough, like why wouldn't they just be able to do that by like just a fraction of a like a millimeter? >> Did I say anything earlier about are the are those repair are those Would you call them reparations? Would they come back? >> Maybe. >> Did I mention that? >> did. >> Oh, okay. Because there is a there is a chance that some of those things that they're correcting will go bad again. Will go back. And I would have to know that before I did that. Uh I wouldn't I wouldn't send it to have them repair anything. >> Cool. Thank you. I also I also brought as a thank you to all the channel members, my entire Pokémon collection >> Oh. >> for you to review. So, if you want to see that, as a big thank you to all the channel members, we'll have that up for you as well. >> I want to see it. Yes. >> To end this off, we have some one-word answer questions we've prepared for you. So, you just answer with one word. It's rapid-fire questions. Let us know what you think. >> Okay. >> If Logan Paul never entered Pokémon, what would a PSA 10 base set Charizard be worth? >> 200,000. >> What card do rich people secretly buy that normal collectors cannot afford anymore? >> Everything comes back to base set Charizards. That That's the card everybody wants. That's And if the the people who can afford them, that's in that value range. >> What's the closest thing that Pokémon has to insider trading? >> It's kind of like if you you asked me, you know, some some of these questions today where what I I could move the needle a little bit, right? Uh and the whole reason you're asking me that is kind of like you're collaborating with me that where you and I are going to really pump up this card or something. >> Like Mars Attacks. So, if Logan buys the whole Mars Attacks collection >> Yeah, leave leave out the Mars Attacks, otherwise they're going to be too expensive for you and I to fight over. >> [laughter] >> I'm thinking about it. Lastly, we got to ask you about your charity. I'm curious, what are the recent developments of it? What are the main goals in the future? And what would you like to share about it? >> Yeah, well, you know, I I think the the greatest story is from the past. You know, from uh how did that become a priority of mine? And has been my entire life in that and uh I'm going to tell you a story of how it started for me, my interest in the charity work. Uh back in the in the late '60s when I was in my mid-teens in that, I was very involved in uh drugs, in psychedelics, and you know, things that were around for There was common, you know, back then. And uh and I got very sick and I quit. And just to jump ahead for a second, I've been sober to this day. Not a drink, not a drug, nothing, you know, for uh 50 years. I 55 years now, 57 years. Uh but because of that, I got involved in helping other young people that were on the streets. I was from Hollywood, right? You know, Sunset Boulevard and in that and uh got got involved in Narcotics Anonymous and uh you know, uh you know, went went through my my treatment and did well. And and I met a a lady that maybe you wouldn't you would know of her maybe, but not um uh she was a an Academy Award-winning actress in 1949 and she was the voice of the devil in Exorcist and that. Her name was Mercedes McCambridge. She uh did a lot of work with me with Senate subcommittees and things like that. Me as an teenager and her as an Academy Award-winning actress, we did a lot of things together and uh and she drove it home how important it was that I do well and how important it is that I help others do better in that. >> [snorts] >> It also affected my entire life I've been early for everything and that. And I learned that from her also. She would come to the house to get me. She would come early, park on the street, and sit there until it was exactly the time to get to the door to come and get me. And she made it clear to in her that in her opinion the most important thing you can be is on time. Most important thing. Obviously, there's, you know, extenuating circumstances, but still I learned that from her. Plus I learned the value of charity and how the charity isn't for other people. The charity is for yourself. The charity is for what what kind of person you you [clears throat] are and that that you're going to turn into and the benefits that you're going to experience, you know, because of it. And so my my entire life I've been interested in art in charities. Chris Camillo, who you have had on your podcast numerous times, one of the best examples of charity that I can think of, at least since the beginning, was from him. He walked up to me at a card show years ago. I didn't know him, never heard of him. He apparently knew of me. He walked up to me in the lobby of a hotel with a box and he said, "Gary, this is for you and your charity." At the time it was uh it was brain health and autism with Steve Aoki. And then he said, "Gary, this box is for you for your charity. Anything you want to do with it." And walked away. A guy I'd never even saw I'd never heard of him before, right? A first edition base Pokémon box. Even 6 years ago, that was worth a ton of 100,000 or or something like >> was 250. >> Yeah, see that? See that? And I mean, I even now I get misty thinking about it, right? I think I think it may it just, you know, makes me think just makes me uh see the positive side of everything that we're doing and and what this is all about. And uh and that ended up growing into Pokémon saves the world that we were all involved in together. And now, you know, to get to present day, uh my my wife, Tuan honestly, she doesn't need to work, right? She's 50. You know, hope she doesn't mind me saying that. But uh she doesn't need to work, but she is a special education teacher, has a master's in special education, and goes in comes home with bite marks and, you know, things like that. Uh But she absolutely loves working with disabled children and that and again, she doesn't need to do that, right? And uh and then our uh our work with Steve and then, you know, through our charity, our autism charity, we also have an autistic daughter, an 11-year-old daughter who has autism. And that, so it's uh all the shows I go to, my interest in Collect-A-Con, the dollars that came out of that and have come out of that steadily has all gone into our autism charity, Autism Instruct. And and so it's uh it's pretty much been our whole life this last at least 10 years. It's been a part of my life for my entire life. And you asked about the future. As as long as I can, I'm going to be there for that because it's good for me. >> Well, that's a very noble cause. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We appreciate that a lot. Um viewers, if you do want to learn any more about any of the stuff we've spoken about on this podcast, your information will be linked down below. >> Great. >> And of course for the members, we are going to be reviewing Graham's portfolio. Thank you so much >> Portfolio Pokemon collection. >> So used to portfolio this Yeah. >> Well, portfolio Pokemon collection. >> It might qualify. >> It might qualify. Graham's Pokemon portfolio. We'll see. You tell me. >> So you guys will see Graham's $30 in his >> [laughter] >> Pokemon Pokemon portfolio. Thank you guys so much for watching. Of course we would not be here if not for you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Graham. Thank you, Gary. Till next time. >> Till next time. >> Thank you.