333: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Vision as a Gateway: Focus & Resilience with Dr. Meenal Agarwal

Hey everybody, welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join me as I interview medical experts, world leaders, innovators of all types, bringing you information to help you on your way to optimal performance and longevity and overall just better health and more joy in your life. Today, we have an eye specialist up coming interest, Dr. Meena Agarwal, and I am super excited to introduce her um in just a moment. Before I do, I want to remind you that we are accepting new patients at Flatiron Functional Medicine in Boulder, Colorado. If you're interested in becoming a patient, you can give us a call at 303-993-7910. Um you can also go to info@flatironfunctionalmedicine.com if you prefer to email. And we would love to see you and help you on your way to optimal healing or if you have a complex medical mystery, um we're great at solving those mysteries. We'd love to be of service to you. You've heard before, but we have drjillhealth.com products and services specially curated to help you with optimal performance and longevity and overall better life, better gut, um better health. Uh some of the things we feature there are the MCAS bundle. A lot of you suffering from um mast cell activation syndrome. We have some incredible products, some of our top sellers. Um we also have a SIBO SIFO kit if you suffer from gut issues and don't know what's going on or if you remember, you know, going traveling somewhere 7 years ago and getting a little bit of a bug and then you've never been the same since. There's a chance that you have SIBO and you can go there, check it out. It is a trio of products to help you with your gut health. Um also some of our best-selling probiotics like the probiotic with IG is a powerhouse for gut health. Um you can also get probiotic with Sacro. So, those are just a few of the many, many things there. Um we also have Dr. Jill Beauty line, which is anti-aging products that are clean and amazing for your skin. Um if you don't know where to start there, check out the Dr. Jill favorites. And that's all at drjillhealth.com. Okay, let me introduce our guest. Dr. Meenal Agarwal is a board-certified optometrist and spatial awareness expert who takes a holistic approach to vision as a gateway to brain health, focus, and overall well-being. She integrates optometry, neuroscience, medicine to address root causes of visual problems and their impact on cognition, neurodegeneration, and daily performance. A vocal advocate for reducing digital overload, she helps people restore sharper focus, balance, and presence in a tech-driven world. Um she hosts a Uncover Your Eyes Truth About Health and Wellness, and her insights have been featured in Time, Forbes, and Fox News. Let's welcome Dr. Agarwal. Meenal, I am so happy to have you on Resiliency Radio and talk about something that actually is very personal to me, and it's how vision has so much to do with overall health. We're going to dive in and hit this, and you're going to give us all the beautiful pearls that you've learned in your journey. But before we do, I always like to know the person behind the information, and I'd love to know a little bit more about your journey into this field. >> Yeah, thank you so much, Jill, for having me today. It's an honor, so thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, I you know, I I always wanted to be an optometrist, actually. I know it sounds cliché, but actually since I was 11 years old, and it was because I was diagnosed with glaucoma when I was 11 years old by my own optometrist, and you know, at that time we didn't have a lot of treatment options. I was put on 11 drops a day to reduce my eye pressure. And at that time, also, we didn't know a lot about the disease. The disease was thought to be just of high eye pressure. So, not a lot of, you know, options on treatment, especially kids. So, you know, there's not a lot of juvenile glaucoma going on. So, I was seeing my eye doctor and a a specialty hospital in Toronto that's for kids. It's very specialty and I I I was bouncing between everybody like every couple weeks cuz every I you know, I was the case. And the care that you know, my optometrist invested in me and my family for the fear that I would go blind and you know, just the preparations and and and the hand-holding but also the research that he had done behind the scenes, you know, in in whatever way he could help me was it was just so touching and so, you know, since I was young I said, "This is what I want to do for someone else." And it's not that as a practitioner, you know, people always say, "You know, you know, you must think you know everything or you should know everything." And I always tell my patients, especially when they tell me what meds are on or if there's cross interaction, I I say, "I don't know everything. I you know, I'm not an encyclopedia. I'm not Google. I I have to look this up and I have to research and maybe there is a correlation or maybe there isn't, but it's good you're you're going to have to give me some time." And I think that's such a great, you know, indication of a practitioner that you can should go to. And and he was that for me and that's who I wanted to become for somebody else. And for me the the fear of losing vision or possibly, you know, becoming blind was was so scary and I could just see kind of like people say we see her life flashing ahead of us. That's what I felt at such a young age. And you know, in a nutshell, I don't want to take up so much of your time on that, but that's why I wanted to enter in this field. >> Uh you just mentioned some really beautiful qualities and almost all of my guests, I always get so excited because that curiosity, that willingness to go and and not just just tell the patient, "Oh, well, that doesn't make sense, so we don't know what's happening." But instead say, "Well, that's interesting. Let's together see if we can figure this out and I think that's so powerful because every patient is so unique. I learn stuff every day from my patients just cuz I'm listening and then it doesn't always make sense, but I'm like, "Well, let's figure this out." And I see that in you and then I also I'm sorry that you had to go through that, but so often the most beautiful practitioners have gone through their own journey and they know what it's like to sit there with fear or uncertainty or not really know what their life has in store. So, I I really love that you've used those things to catapult into what you do today. Um so, I want to talk a little bit about how the eye and the retina is a portal to so many other parts of the body. Um I've done some work with glasses with prisms and things and they really changed and it wasn't my vision, it was my brain, right? And our title today is about how to optimize focus and resiliency. Do you want to talk just a little bit about how vision is just one part of what you do, but there's this other portal that we have access to through the eye to the brain actually change functioning in other ways. >> Absolutely. Um you know, vision when we talk about vision 20/20, that's that's just a number and honestly that's dictating this central 5° of our vision and we have like 200°. >> Yes. >> So, the 20/20 number is the smallest portion of our, you know, consideration in an eye exam. Really, we should be looking at the entire retina or the entire scope of our vision or our spatial awareness as I like to call it. And the biggest thing is people, you know, don't always realize that the retina is embryonically brain tissue and our optic nerve is part of the central nervous system. That's huge and so it is a big indication of our brain and our and systemic issues. The eyes also have a very dense supply of blood vessels and intricate supply of blood vessels and so, a lot of our metabolic conditions can show up in the eyes even before they show up systemically. There's also neuro conditions and, you know, cognitive conditions that are started a lot of research starting to be done on on early cognitive um protein changes in the eyes that we can now detect on scans and early retinal scans and early, you know, other types of scans. And I think that's so important that we used to say this phrase that our eyes are the window to the body or the soul, but they they truly are now and more and more emerging research is saying that. And I can't tell you, Jill, how many patients I have seen where I have sent to the ER saying you're about to have a stroke. You know, or I mean, could it be tomorrow? Could it be in the coming days? I have no idea, but you're about to have a stroke. And there's one patient in particular in her 40s that comes to mind. And she said to me, "I'm on no medication. I'm very healthy." And I saw a mild-looking plaque in one of her peripheral or side blood vessels. And I think I almost could have even missed it. And it it was so small and so mild. Um I I said to her, "When did you have your last, you know, family doctor checkup where you have your cholesterol and uh you know, everything checked?" And she goes, "Oh, just recently and everything's great." I said, "Okay." I don't want to do this to you and I know you're I think I'm crazy, but I need you to go to the ER. >> Wow. >> And she was actually, you know, it became an inpatient. She was there for a few days, worked up, and they she was put on all sorts of medication. Her heart was tested and they did feel that she was an early stroke patient um candidate. And you know, it's patients like those where, you know, that gives us satisfaction in knowing that I did something before it actually happened or it like prevent preventative medicine in a way. But that is how important the eyes are in having that eye exam because your labs can be normal and I know we say this in every profession, but there could be other signs or other symptoms and and we want to check every every part of your body just like you go to the dentist, you go to the family doctor, you need to have your eyes checked. >> I could not agree more. And in my experience, so I do complex chronic illness, environmental toxicity, and the eyes can tell you so much. I've seen effects of autoimmune uveitis from Bartonella, and then I've seen things like I'd love for you to talk a little bit about visual contrast because I am a layman as far as compared to you in this, but for my understanding, obviously these small tiny vessels in the retina affect the contrast and when what we've seen is biotoxins including like mycotoxins and mold can affect that blood flow. And it's one of the first early ways you can see these changes in the ability to detect light and dark. Again, maybe you can explain it better than I can, but if I recall, it was back in the 1940s of of people that were like, you know, veterans or people that then maybe exposed to toxins where they would actually check visual acuity and say, "Oh, there might have been an exposure." Now, it's not diagnostic, but do you want to talk a little bit about visual contrast and what it might tell? I'm so curious. >> So, yeah, so there's a lot of, you know, medications, drugs, chemicals, you know, whatever we want to talk about, you we can call it any class that can cause changes in the retina before anywhere else. Um there's also like heart medications that can cause changes on our corneal surface and sometimes to tell their doctor, you know, they have to get off these medications. So, a lot of these medications deposit things in the retina. You know, there's tamoxifen, a very popular drug for breast cancer that it deposits in our retina as well. So, there's a lot of, you know, retinal changes that can happen, whether it's blood flow >> on exam, you can see these. >> Yes. Oh, yes. Yes, whether it's blood flow, whether it's pigment changes in the retina, they will eventually decrease your visual acuity, but, you know, to go back to contrast sensitivity, sometimes that is the first sign because it's it's much more subtle. So, I think, you know, checking contrast sensitivity for a lot of patients, it it's not an easy test to do. >> No, and I'm I'm doing it. >> [laughter] >> But, you know, I think a lot of the specialty clinics where they're really trying to crack down on little details, they will measure, you know, contrast sensitivity where we're we're measuring the changes in the shades, you know, of black, you know, going to gray, and then not being able to tell any contrast. And I think those are just very, very early indications of visual acuity or, you know, changes in our vision. I I still feel that they're very much central related, and I think that again, it's not a tell-all sign. I think a big portion of these these, um, you know, we again, chemicals, drugs, whatever you want to call it, are seen based on the examiner seeing deposits and things like that in the eyes is probably the earliest sign. >> Hey guys, just a quick commercial interruption to remind you that you can get all kinds of products and services, even for your eye health, yes, at drjillhealth.com. One of my favorites, I've been searching far and wide for those of you suffering from dry eyes, and I found an incredible product that we carry called DE3 Dry Eye Omega. You can find it at drjillhealth.com. Just search omega dry eye formula, um, and you will find it there. Uh, it's called DE3 Dry Eye Omega, and it is profoundly beneficial for those of you suffering from dry eyes. Okay, let's get back to our show with Dr. Minal. Amazing. Yeah, thanks for clarifying cuz again, I am not the expert, but I've been so fascinated by how much that, you know, from an expert like you that we can tell and know and see. Um, one thing I want to talk about is we are all on screens, and we're all having blue light all hours of the day. And I mean, so many people have heard about blue blockers and limiting screens, but from your perspective, tell us about how this is affecting not only our vision, but our brains. And what your thoughts about limiting screen time using the like what would you recommend to the average teenager who's on screens 24/7? >> So, I'm going to touch on blue light first cuz it's it's one of my favorite topics and it's So, blue light is, you know, the part of the visible wavelength of light. So, it's visible light, but it is the shortest wavelength. Because it's the shortest wavelength, it tends to have the highest energy. So, kind of the opposite. Shortest wavelength, but highest energy. So, it tends to scatter the most of all the other colors of the visible light spectrum. So, when we're looking at a screen, blue light tends to scatter the most. So, it gives us more reflections, can make us, you know, anecdotally have more eye strain, more tiredness, that kind of thing. Back in the day, we didn't care. We were looking at blue light everywhere, but we didn't care because we weren't staring at something all day for 8 hours a day >> Yeah. >> where that scatter mattered. So, is blue light going to cause disease? No, I want to debunk that today. There is no study that claims or and no research that claims that blue light causes, you know, glaucoma or causes certain diseases, but we do know that it has the highest scatter. So, it tends to give us a lot of visual strain. So, there are patients where you know, they can't take breaks for 8 hours on a screen and they've got to work from home and they just can't do it. And I will tell them, do you want to try blue light glasses? I mean, it's not going to solve the whole issue, but if they would like to, I anecdotally some of my patients have said it helps them. I have tried it. I don't feel it it helps me, but I'm not typically on a computer 8 hours a day. So, it's person-to-person dependent. It, you know, if they feel it's going to help, but one caveat is is not getting these random blue light blocking glasses from you know, sites like Amazon or, you know, Shein. You want to look at the amount of UV blue light blockage that there is. So, typically, the best ones on the market filter about 30% to 40% of harmful blue light. You know, the ones that are just bought for $5 to $10 are typically filtering 5%. The problem with those is they don't typically have an anti-reflective coating on them. So, you're adding a blue light blocker to decrease the high energy and the scatter, but then you don't have an anti-reflective coating that's getting rid of the general scatter from a screen. So, it's counterintuitive. To me, it makes no sense. So, I would rather you not wear anything if you're going to choose to get those, but if otherwise you're going to choose to get a proper, you know, blue light blocking glasses, they should have an anti-reflective coating. Typically, the higher-priced ones or from your optical store or doctor's office, then sure, try it. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I don't wear them. My kids don't wear them. So, you know, >> I love that perspective. I'm so refreshed to hear it because I happen to agree and there's a lot of biohackers, longevity experts that telling everyone to wear these, wear them on the plane, all of that. >> Oh, yes, I've seen that >> I want to get right. I want to tell you a couple things in my just this my personal end of one experience, but when I really want to focus, I turn the light all the way up, the blue as high as it goes on my screen and it's almost like a stimulant to me, which makes sense, right? Cuz it's stimulating. I don't do that all the time. And I'm not like you, I'm not on screens all day long. Thank goodness, I'm seeing patients face-to-face and doing a lot more interaction. So, maybe it's a little different than someone, but it's interesting cuz I actually use it in the right proper doses to help me focus and I find that when I have that bright blue light, I actually focus better versus I feel kind of if I put the yellow glasses on or, you know, the blue blockers, which are yellow screen, Yes, don't I have less focus. I'm more distracted, which it kind of makes sense and again I use the >> Which makes sense with your circadian rhythm too, right? Like you're getting rid of the blue light so you are getting more sleepy. So And that's another thing if you're going to be on your device at night time, there's a whole circadian rhythm element to the blue light. If you're going to be on your device at night time and you have to work till 1:00 a.m. on your device, again there's no harm in trying it because maybe it might help you sleep better. But what I don't understand is the wearing it all day because in the morning you do want your cycle to wake up and you want, you know, your cortisol to be released. You want to be up and awake in the morning so wearing it all day does not make sense to me. But wearing it, you know, at night time because you got to work till 1:00 a.m. makes sense if you want to try that. So I think I think the problem with the world now is we have one pill or one hack and we overuse it and it should just be about balance and I think that's the problem with society. >> I love it. Couldn't agree more. One of my favorite recommendation for patients who are not sleeping well is within 30 minutes of waking up you get bright sunlight to your eyes. You right now because that helps that cortisol curve the circadian rhythm and it's so powerful even from say 6:00 a.m. as the sun is rising to your bedtime because you just lock that in and I found with jet lag and travel to Europe and other countries my most powerful thing is using light to help my circadian rhythm. So like giving that light in my eyes in the new space and so powerful. So let's talk more about visual function contributing to people often complain in my clinic of brain fog or headaches or dizziness, fatigue, anxiety, difficult focus, concentration, all of these things. How often do you see issues with the retina, with the vision, with the eyes in general that are actually contributing to some of these symptoms? So often. >> [laughter] >> You know, I think so for me the biggest thing that has come up over the last, you know, I want to say five years has been our lack of spatial awareness that is contributing to a lot of anxiety, you know, and I don't want to say it's a sole contributor, but anxiety, mental health issues, wanting to not interact or introversion. And you know, that's what I've written my my recent book that's coming out called Stuck in a Flat World is I feel we are literally stuck in the central 5 degrees of our vision all day, which is that 20/20 vision that we're just looking centrally and we're not using any of the other 200 degrees of our vision. And what happens is we are not triggering an entire area of our brain called the parietal lobe. And the parietal lobe gets all the information from our peripheral or the rest of the 200 degrees of our vision. And because we're stuck in this flat world, it's not stimulated enough and so it's not it can go to sleep. It doesn't need to work. It's not being used and there's so many other things in that brain that need to wake up or be used like a muscle for the rest of the areas of our brain to function appropriately. For example, if we are sitting on a device all day and we're not stimulating that parietal lobe, our amygdala, which is our fear center of our our brain kind of goes on high alert or threat mode. And that is my theory on why people who are constantly on a device or up close are not wanting to interact with others because there's that sense of fear because the parietal lobe is not being stimulated. So for me a lot of the issues that we have today are literally right in front of us. And I, you know, urge people to expand their awareness because that is part of their vision and their brain function. Again, a big portion of their brain, which is the parietal lobe. >> Oh, that makes so much sense. Um, I've noticed just one of my favorite things in the evening after work is to go on a walk and while I can wear headphones, I never I'm not like watching anything so there's no visual there, but that that lateral movement is so soothing and do you have any thoughts on cuz I think there is actual science on like walking, moving in our environment, saying hi to people, looking around and I I find that's for some reason it's one of my most beautiful, calming nervous system resets among any other thing that I could do is just taking a walk without any stimulus, without any headphones, without any devices and being in that movement. Any thoughts on how that affects our visual field? >> Yes, absolutely. So, I mean, one of my first exercises that I tell parents to do for their kids who are on devices all day is walking and talking. So, you know, because it's so simple, but it's so powerful. Because when you are walking and talking, um, you know, unless you're looking around and you're an adult, but if you're you're talking to your child, you're developing spatial navigation. You're developing that spatial area and you're looking at things that are in your peripheral vision that are stimulating that parietal lobe. That's also where problem-solving happens. So, you know, I think it's building skills for ourselves, sure, as adults, but more importantly, it's helping the next generation navigate space. They are losing navigational skills so they can't even navigate their social life because they don't even have know how to literally navigate their their their, you know, physical life, you know, or physical space. And I feel we focus so much on attention, but we focus zero on orientation. Where am I in space? Where am I in relation to others? Is so important for us to ask ourselves. >> Wow, that makes so much sense. One of my one of the optometrists I worked with years ago talked about often people are either laser focused like a spotlight or they're diffuse awareness and it's almost like those two things if they're not in balance, they're usually, you know, either like uh, autistic kind of presentation or an ADHD presentation with too many stimulants or too focused and they can't, you know, socialize. And I think that's a really good metaphor for kind of this vision thing. Do you notice when you're doing exams and doing the history and talking to someone if they're more likely one or the other? And what recommendations would you make to expand our ability to be both? >> So, I you know, I think you know, one thing I'm going to touch on is a lot of the ADHD kids, you know, you you can tell because they are jumping the moment they get in your room. They're hyper-focused on different things. Again, these are people who have hyper-stimulated their temporal lobe as opposed to their parietal lobe. So, [clears throat] your temporal lobe is the fun cent is is is processing the central 5° of our vision. So, you can tell that they they they are laser-focused. Exactly what you said, you know, they'll look at this and they'll go here. Oh, where's the where's the where's this? What is this for? What is this for? What is this for, right? So, I think you know, again, I can't label them. That's that's not in my scope of practice, but I feel a lot of those patients are on the verge of a learning disorder or ADHD and I think it's so important that they recognize the environment or parents recognize the environment they're in and they can change that. But, you know, on point to your I I want to say it's more about the eye muscle movement that you were talking about or weakness in eye muscle movements. So, those can be yes, we're seeing a lot more of those and that is also from being hyper-focused. Our eyes and our brain were not designed to look up close at 40 cm all day. They were not designed to do that. They were actually designed to be looking out in space more often than they were up close. So, we have a rule that we like to tell our patients and it is the 20-20-20 rule. For every 20 minutes for 20 seconds, look 20 ft or far away. So, every 20 minutes while you're on a computer or your child is, if they're able to look out a window or something just far away for 20 seconds. And it doesn't have to be long. It could be going to the bathroom as a quick break or going to get a granola bar, something really short. But our eyes were designed to look far or if a child's on an iPad all day watching YouTube, get that on the TV because the TV is actually further. Now, we we grew up watching TV all day, you know, so I mean, it's definitely less strain on your eye muscles, but it makes sense, right, Jill? Like if you're constantly in focus up close, your muscles are going to be tired and eventually have an outward pattern. And that is the trend that we're seeing. >> It's like a tight hamstring, right? This I I love that analogy cuz it's really really very practical. And the 20-20-20 rule, that's a pearl. Um I want to shift this a little cuz so many people, whether it's We have a lot of practitioners, so I'm sure will be interested cuz they can refer to optometrists like you, um but also brain health. So, brain health is a big one, right? Um are there early signs of Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, neurodegenerative diseases that you see in your eye exam or your history? >> Yes. So, you know, we I you know, there's a lot of stats that go around there, but one of my favorite kind of stats is 60% of patients with cognitive decline have some form of vision and or hearing loss. And that is huge. And I always tell patients that your eyes are connected to your brains. So, if you do not have good vision and you know, with that respect, I want to say more the laser focus like a 20/20 or you're not wearing your glasses cuz you feel they're going to miraculously clear your vision your your vision's going to miraculously clear up on its own, um please stimulate your vision because that is a direct connection to your brain. And what happens is areas of our brain get lazy, if you want to call it, or that muscle is not working. And there are early cognitive changes that can happen. And I do see that in a lot of patients that are seniors. And I cannot tell you how many patients come in and tell me "I've had my mom tested for Alzheimer's. I've had them tested, you know, for dementia. My mom's just not listening to me, etc., etc." And I see the patient and they have either not enough central vision or they've lost their peripheral vision, one or the other. Point is, mom cannot notice you because they've lost some form of their vision. And so it's cognitively not processing. It's all linked. Um and it's it's same goes for hearing, right? There's a lot of patients you'll notice with hearing loss that have cognitive losses. So, you know, I don't want to say that we're the ones to diagnose that disease based on the vision changes, but I think I I I always tell patients that are not wearing their glasses or correcting their vision optimally that look at early cognitive changes, we we are going to start seeing them in in the next wave of patients that believes in complete biohacking, you know, of vision by not wearing glasses or not correcting their vision. And I'm a firm believer in curing things naturally and holistically. And I think there's a time and place for that. But it's like saying if your sugar is out of whack, you're going to, you know, holistically treat it without taking any Metformin or, you know, any medication. I think put them in tandem. And if you feel things are getting better, you can relieve, you know, the medication. So, it's the same kind of concept. But, you know, to the to the other point of it for more of our retinal changes or physical eye changes that we can see. So, we're seeing a lot of studies come out now on a scan called the optical coherence tomographer. So, you know, in short, it's an OCT. And a lot of doctors are offering it when you go in for your visit. So, I urge patients to do it. And it would, you know, we're starting to see that it can show early, you you um um early changes in the retina or plaques or build up that can be indicative of certain cognitive or neuro diseases. I haven't seen any patients with it, but that is the philosophy and and there's a lot of studies that have been done on it. So, you know, I'm yet to see my first, but I you know, I wonder if we will. >> Yeah, I do think and like even scans for melanoma, I think as AI gets involved in medicine, we're going to see a little bit more of this really cool stuff coming out. So, stay tuned for that. Um so, with our topic, you know, optimal performance and resilience, we've talked about all these amazing things. I want to talk a little bit about what your recommendations if we had like 10 minutes a day to devote to our vision. I'll just tell you, you know how it is through I try to stay off social media, but when I'm on there for reasons of my own, you know, platform or whatever, often you'll see these oh, 10 minutes a day will restore your vision as you know, like these things that are like promises, these silly little and I go, that's kind of bogus. But are there any science-based um things that you can do to improve vision? I noticed I just hit 50 and so all of a sudden my phone instead of being here, I have to pull it back, right? New to me and I don't wear corrective, so I'm like, okay, this is 50. So, what things can we do to improve our vision as we age? >> So, I'm a firm believer in what is practical and what can we actually do? So, number one, I'm going to say for everybody, get that morning sunlight. That is setting everything up, your brain, your eyes, um your eyes actually release dopamine, like all sorts of neurotransmitters. We have estrogen receptors in our eyes, like your eyes are so important to get that circadian rhythm going and your eyes is the only place that actually sets the circadian rhythm. So, if you don't get that morning light, everything is dormant, your your suprachiasmatic nucleus can't send the messages to, you know, everything else in your in your brain to get going and release all these neurotransmitters and things for our our day and our our So, I think getting that morning sunlight is like your vitamin. So, I would rather, you know, if you can take a vitamin, I think you can get morning sunlight. The second thing I'm going to say is there's a lot of advocacy for eye exercises, and I am a firm believer in eye exercises for people with weak muscles and, you know, certain things, especially children where we need vision therapy. But, I think for the average layperson, the issue is we all know it's the up-close focus. And the stat is by the year 2050, 50% of the world globally will be into some form of glasses. So, we know that there is a big issue, and we know the the reason for the issue is the shift in our modern lifestyle where we're focusing at something up close. So, implement that 20/20/20 rule. >> Love it. >> Rather than, you know, doing 10 minutes of exercises, I would, you know, and I can give people exercises, we call them pencil push-ups, and all sorts of things, but I would rather you just look far away. >> 20 minutes. >> I I mean, I I mean, I think it's I think it's more practical. I'm not somebody, like my physiotherapist and my chiro always tell me to do all these exercises. I never follow them. >> I know, me, too. >> [laughter] >> So, it's like, just be practical and take breaks cuz we know the culprit is the up-close focus. And then, you know, I think for me, it's it's nutrition. Yes. A big piece of it is nutrition. We have so much evidence and so much emerging evidence on all sorts of diseases like macular degeneration, even glaucoma. There's a this new study that's come out on B vitamins and the high link with glaucoma, and I was shocked to read that. So, you know, and I'm vegetarian, so I'm B vitamin deficient, and I was always until I found out when I was a teenager or even after that, in my 20s. So, you know, for me, that hit home. Like, was that the reason I developed glaucoma? I don't know, right? And so, there's a lot of emerging research on nutrition helping every aspect of our our body. So, for the eyes, the biggest classes of foods that are important is the the colored or green leafy vegetables. So, they have a lot of lutein, zeaxanthin. These are pigmentations that actually are antioxidants. They actually help our retina, help, you know, process and our our retinal pigment epithelium, which is part of our retina, help to process, break down photoreceptors, regenerate great things, and help with blood flow. So, I think eating vegetables and the berry class is really has great antioxidants as well. So, your raspberries, your strawberries. And then the second class of food is your omega-3s, which I think everybody advocates for, I want to say. And for us, a big thing with that is, you know, decreasing inflammation, and also helping with dry eyes, which is a big thing, you know, menopause, perimenopause. So, you know, those are I think those are my three things, the morning light, the 20/20 rule, and the good foods that I think everybody can just implement as part of a sustainable lifestyle. >> Well, I couldn't agree more, especially about the morning light, and that's a great kind of way to cap our episode. I want to uh make sure people know where to find you, find your book. Do you have two books in the new book out, or tell me more about what book >> Just one book, yeah. >> Okay. Yeah, where can [clears throat] people find you and find more, yeah? >> So, my website, you can find me on my website. It's doctorminal.com, and uh I do have an early access link to my book that's coming out in October called Stuck in a Flat World, literally. Um and it's a lot about how spatial awareness, that I like to call it, is affecting our safety and our brain processes, and and just all sorts of personality traits that we have. So, it was a passion project to for me because I experienced, I feel a lot of spatial awareness loss at in one point in my life, which I, you know, share in the book as well. So, you know, I hope people can resonate. And I've had patients that have come in moms especially come in crying and telling me and I truly believe they fit the same pattern as me. So, you know, I hope it resonates and I hope people um can make some changes. There's a lot of great recalibrations that I like to call it uh for people that are practical to help them. And then you can also find me on Instagram. That's where I'm most active at dr.minalaggarwal. Thank you so much though Jill for this. >> welcome. This was so fun and so practical and I think such good information. I love the 2020 rule 202020 rule. I love the morning sunlight. I love this cruciferous and colorful polyphenols um all these incredible tips that you've given us today. Thanks so much for coming on this episode. Hey guys, hope you found that episode with Dr. Meenal about eyesight and optimal brain health through our retina um fascinating and full of practical tips. I know I really love the 202020 rule and some of things she shared. One of my favorite things is when I'm doing international travel, getting that bright sunlight in the first part of the day within 20-30 minutes of waking absolutely changes jet lag. In fact, I feel like I've totally hacked jet lag by using food and light when I travel to optimize the brain to get on that new cycle. Um so hopefully next time you have a trip to Europe, you can do the same thing. Um thank you as always for joining us on this episode. If you are listening on any um of your favorite audio podcast uh platforms uh iTunes or Spotify, please do stop and leave us a review. It helps us to get more listeners and more great guests. If you're on YouTube, we are um nearing our 1 million mark. Um by the time this is out, we may have hit it. Anyway, we hope you will join the subscribers that have already subscribed. I know many of you listen to the podcast and haven't yet subscribed. If you haven't yet, click that subscribe button. Click the bell to be notified of future episodes. And as you know, we have new episodes out every single week. Also, stop by drjillhealth.com to see all the wonderful products and services that are available for your optimal health and performance there. And I will see you again next week for another episode of Resiliency Radio.