25 Years Later: Fort Worth Firefighters Reflect on 9/11 and Ground Zero | City of Fort Worth

a little bit about kind of how y'all got to be um kind of fast forward to the morning of September 11. of everything that was going on were you guys on shift kind of walk me through what that looked like to y'all and did y'all know then and probably not but that y'all skills and stuff were going to be in the days followed to put to the test. >> The team had already been federalized at that time. Is it? >> No, we were actually uh Kenny and I were >> we were we we and the trainer trained the trainer for the uh structure technology class. We were in College Station when it >> Yeah. We realizing >> and the people that we learned from were the upper echelon of the FEMA system and the trainers then all their pagers back then everybody had a pager and their pager started going off and everybody started hustling around the room in a during a class and they came back and said uh plane a plane had hit the World Trade Center deals and this is before we even knew the second one or the uh um >> and you didn't know and you didn't know the size >> didn't really know. Yeah. That didn't have any detail information other than they were scarring around >> and within an hour, hour and a half, we knew we were under attack. >> Yeah. And um and we were actually activated that day. And uh but what what if you'll remember the 9/11 the uh all the airplanes were grounded. So we could not actually respond because we'd have to be flown up there to get to New York. But in the FEMA system, there were the teams that were on the east coast and they originally went and were deployed that day. And you've got teams out of Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Florida, New York, Virginia Beach, Virginia. All of the East Coast teams went there. They either went to New York or they went to the Pentagon. And these are are the people that had been trained and they're they had the they're part of that 28 response teams that's in the system. Well, they went and when you're deployed, you do a 14-day rotation. So, our actual job came in, we we got there really uh about a week or after the event or 10 days, but we relieved the team that were on the ground uh originally and then we came in uh we had to wait uh until >> Well, we could QRS. >> Yeah. Because they they didn't bring us in. We were we went into Fort Meguire or Fort Air Force. >> Yes. spent one night there. >> Yeah. One one night there uh >> eating eating good food with the single big rims. >> Wound up at Fort Dicks. Yeah. >> To the ditch where they flew us to the We were in New Jersey. In other words, they did not want us over there in case something else happened that they had people in place to to deal with it. So it was >> Yeah. But we >> six or seven days. >> Yeah. Before and after before we ever had boots on the ground. >> Yeah. I'd gone into station two that morning, started my shift, and it was one of those mornings where the uh se or the uh B ship there, they had hung over several of them, deep breakfast. So, it was a busy noisy morning in the kitchen and uh we'd already been talking about the little sat Cessna uh Cub that had hit the World Trade Center and it was on the news uh there in the kitchen and as everybody's talking that TV's playing and I happened to glance up and that shot looking straight south from the north tower can't see the south tower but you can see the airplane flying from the right side of the screen and then the flame out the other side of the building. I said there wasn't no Cessna Cub and and we're going to be, you know, >> sure, >> somebody's going to go to work today. >> And uh like say before noon, we'd gotten a call to respond. Responded down to TICS. And I guess it was uh that was Monday and it was either Friday or Saturday. They finally said, "Well, you guys go home, refresh your gear because we've been waiting for transportation up there for almost a week, and come back down uh Saturday night. We'll have you a a ride Sunday morning." They had chartered an airplane through the federal government to, you know, special permissions and that kind of thing and get the came up there. >> So, you got the call now. Y'all are on the row. You told the family goodbye. What's What's the mood kind of with everybody? And uh that's it's going to the same place >> quiet anxiety thinking well what are what are we getting ready to to get in >> and it makes a hurry up and wait because you know that they can't be waiting on us to deploy so we hurry down there and then we wait on them to pull the credit and it it's >> you hurried down there to wait for four days. >> Yeah, I've done that. >> We never left. We we were right there and they wouldn't let us out. Yeah. >> So, have y'all been to New York prior to any of this? >> I had not been New York City prior to 911. >> So, nobody So, when you're you're flying in, you're kind of taking it all in. What are y'all seeing? >> Well, you can't see anything. We were in military uh air transport. >> Yeah. And into New Jersey. >> Yeah. There's little small windows like this and there there weren't any where we were at. >> Yeah. on the now on the f on the night they actually took us to ground zero on the bus ride on the way in. You could see the smoke plume and the most impressive well impressive the thing that made the biggest impression on me was our bus driver that kept on saying it's not there anymore. >> It's not there anymore. And it took me a minute to realize that he was talking about the World Trade Center not being there anymore. >> The amount of people standing beside the road >> Yeah. And the in the pictures on the >> all every vertical surface was uh >> pictures with Yeah. with missing person >> but just thousands and thousands of people lying in the roadway coming over. >> Yeah. >> And obviously they knew our route. We were staying at the Javvis Center. >> Yeah. From the base operations where we actually were job. >> Yep. And again, we all we work the the evening shift from seven. What what what happens is we had a 72 person team, but we're divided in into two different squad or teams, if you will. So, our team went from seven and 9 to 7 the next morning. And then another team, uh the other half of the team went from, you know, 7 a.m. So, we we we did a 24-hour, uh >> round the clocks, >> round the clock ops. So, you invite up into two groups. But our our squad that we were We do the night off where I've seen sun there. >> I don't I don't think I ever saw it in the day. America's always dark. You just come >> sleep during we we can see sodiz on the way out. >> That was about it. >> So there's a moment in time that just kind of hit you as far as the scale when y'all kind of talked about people on the street when y'all showed up. >> I have to reflect back to the first night we rolled in uh for our first shift. again, all the people that were on the side of the road uh just the sheer numbers and the and passing all these uh all the equipment that they had staged out there and the stuff going on. But when we first got there, we were we unloaded. We didn't know what our assignment was. Uh they didn't even know where we came from. Some of them, especially the New York guys. >> Well, that that did last. >> They they did, but I distinctly remember that uh Captain Tor Reese in Houston which was our he was our assistant task force leader he was in charge of the night shift he said wait right here >> and I'll be back I'm going to go find out what's going on and just let I mean we're just standing out there looking around and you you couldn't help it you you know couple of feet this way couple of feet this way you know next thing we we you know looking around the corner and up. They came back and we had moved and he was not very happy about it, but it was and nobody said a word. Sure. How they were. It was very And it was just kind of like you were you just couldn't believe what you and the pile of debris was five or six stories tall about 100 story building laying in front of you. >> I've heard it described as 17 acres of dusty hill. >> That's that's true. >> I kind of just overwhelm it. >> It's a football say four or five six football fields square. Um if you can imagine that much of debris and then the buildings surrounded it. >> Some still burning. >> Yeah. Some were still burning of smoke. Seven was still burning. >> So in that bucket brigade on our first assignment, we went around and we were part of a bucket brigade and it was because one of the New York guys had uh caught a not thought that he had found a body. But we were working on up against one of the hotels that faced the World Trade Center. And I thought that what we were working on was the first maybe the second floor. Well, in the following days, we came to realize that that awning, which we didn't know was an awning at the time, was actually two stories high. And all that was rubble that had hit the ground and it piled up around those uh adjoining or facing buildings. >> Gotcha. >> That was pretty impressive. >> Yeah. Another thing that that I think people need to realize is the New York City fire >> uh largest fire department in Brewer is such a proud entity and they were so um uh struck by the fact that they wanted to solve Iran. they they didn't really uh care for the federal government to become in there, which we were a part of FEMA and we're a part of the federal government and uh uh and and it back 25 years ago. Uh a lot of of jurisdictions didn't really understand the FEMA system and that we're not coming to take over. We're just there to lend assets and to be able to uh uh deliver technical skills and our equipment for whatever your needs are. And that's that's how that this urban search and rescue team works under under the FEMA. But when we we got there, one of our first missions was to do a underground uh vault that we were to check out. And uh I took my squad and Kenny and and Scott were with me and and the other we have five uh firefighters rescue specialists and myself. But when I walk up, the first person I see is a battalion chief from New York. And if you can visualize, he's got about five or six other other firefighters behind him and they're all in their buckler pants and and t-shirts and helmets, but he's got a white shirt on. And he looks at me and he said, "Okay, Mr. FEMA, what are you going to be able to do for me?" And if you can imagine the the u the tense uh in that conversation when I look at him and I'm thinking, well, th this this is already going may not go very well here. >> Sure. But but I was able to tell him I said, 'Well, I have a crew that we have equipment that would allow us to go below grade and we can check the atmosphere down there to see if it's safe for to be able to search and I can put people to do that if you want that. I've got that equipment. He said, "Well, we need this this thing checked out." So Scott and another U rescue specialist they had that was from Denton at the time academy. >> We put them on rope and they they were lowered down into a a void space that was just like a utility vault uh down in there. In the meantime, I was able to explain to this battalion chief that we were firefighters, paid firefighters from the state of Texas that were a part of this team that we had some technical skills, but we were not the federal government coming here to take over. And and this chief along with these firefighters, they they had never really understood the technical risk. They did they just thought FEMA was coming in here to take over. And and that is not the the way. My point in this story is the fact that you have to make a personal contact with people for them to be able to understand. And that that's what we do in this business on a on a scale whenever we go out. And we learned this 25 years ago uh on on 911 to to do that. But but as we're we're there, a another firefighter comes in and said, "Chief, we've checked that all out down there. It's clear." So he said, "Look, I don't want to get anybody else injured. Let's get your guys out." So, we get on the radio, they come out, and I tell that chief, I said, "Chief, if you want me to, I can mark the side of this opening here, uh, with a with a designated mark that'll show that we've checked it. It's safe. It's the date and time, and nobody else will be, uh, re researching you, or sending anybody down." Yeah, why don't you do that? But because of that, that communication I had with this this chief, we stayed with him the rest of the evening and did more more searches and stuff with his group there. So, so that was a part of what we do in this rescue business on the on a scale uh like 911, but it happens a lot on our floods that we go to. It happens on tornadoes or or wide area searches we do to find people. U we we just we have to do that and that's a part of of what the business he ran. Sure. Well, we talked about the brotherhood and the sisterhood, but when we've got when it's our city and our pride and you had mentioned a while ago, him kind of being that guy, if you'd had that conversation, it may have been a little bit difficult. >> Well, not in that instance. They were hurting. >> Yeah. Uh you could tell they were debated. Yeah. >> Yeah. And they were hurting and uh they just wanted their guidel pretty pretty quickly. Well, Richard's conversation with him helped drive the way the rest of this worked. He got where he trusted us and he gave us specific jobs to do. Yeah. >> In his sector, he was the guy that was running that sector. >> Well, and that sentiment is universal and and the fire service. I imagine emergency services all over. when we went down to&m for the uh bonfires collapse. >> Yeah. >> The the local fire department wanted to uh extricate all victims from the pile. So understanding that we when we came across a victim and and freed them up to actually get them out of the pile. We backed off. >> Yes. >> We learned that to back away and let them get their own. >> Yep. Well, we did that in New York as well. >> We did. >> Yep. >> And we found >> Yep. You find them and then we back >> back away and let them come in. >> Yeah, >> but we would want the same thing here. >> Oh, sure. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's a universal >> sentiment thing. >> So, a typical shift once y'all were down here. >> We said y'all y'all were trying to sleep during the day, don't get up night. So, walk me through what that looked like for y'all. Is it was it kind of consistent throughout or the >> we did they bust us from the Javvis center at seven. We had to be at ground zero at seven and it was broken into sectors. So they would give us you a sector to go to and you'd stand by there. In our particular job as a rescue squad, we were we were there to to assist and and again this instant support team, they go ahead and they they get with the sector commanders that are there from from New York and ask for for what our skills are, if you will, and what we can do. >> One of the things that we did uh and Kenny especially was we cut steel because Kenny had some expertise in how to use a torch. Uh and if you'll if it had been again by the time we got there it's it's almost two weeks into the incident. Well, they were using all of the l the um uh labor that they were using for torches were union people that were civilians and uh we were able to offer >> and they didn't iron workers. >> Yeah, I'm but we were able to offer up our guys that could go and start cutting some steel and doing some work for them uh and and delayering and that's what we in in a collapse like that. That's that's to go and and and that's what we took some jobs that no one really wanted. >> Well, yeah, that that was the thing on that monstrous rubble pile. It required wheel fork as well. And not every steel or >> most iron workers don't hang off the road. Yeah. >> Crane basket dropped off or hung upside down by their feet or whatever. I think they come to respect us after a few days that we did bring some skills and some talent to that to that guy >> and that New York chief had that dispute with the uh local skill workers union rep about we were fixing to go up on the pile for that job and they were complaining that's union work if you you know if you put them up there we're going to pull all the union workers off this site which in that kind of tra travesty I can't see actually happening Okay. But then the battalion chief explained to him what we were planning to do and he said, "Well, we can't do this." And I just, "Okay, then step aside, please, and let these boys take care of." >> So, what were the biggest dangers that y'all felt like as far as risk for y'all walking into this stuff? What was the scariest thing that you were worried about happening to y'all? >> Uh, the cutting of the steel. Uh, we we actually were we put up there on the on the pile and uh we were on a road. We we anchored up above it and we had structural engineers that that gave us an estimate of what the weight of this this piece of steel was and that they and how they wanted it cut. And uh Ken uh Kenny and I had another firefighter that had some torch experience and they both went up there. But the the the the engineer said that and I'm talking the the big part. This is thousands of pounds of steel and >> it was outside of the >> building. Another building. >> Yeah. >> A gutter web. >> Yes. 5 1/2 in thick, 60, 80, 100 ft long. And they had to cut it in pieces to where the crane could grab it and then move it over and put it on a flatbed hall truck to haul it out. Well, in at the time, >> we had people that could figure the weights and how far the crank could lift and the capacities and and really brought an expertise uh >> on the spot expertise on how to do all that stuff. And it it was way beyond what manual construction >> y >> u guys would have, you know, typically would have done. Eventually, somebody would have stepped up, I'm sure. Well, if you'll think of the exterior walls on the trade center, the long narrow windows, those were surrounded by steel curtainters. And that's basically what we were working on was a section of that that was laid over the top of that three or four story high rubble pile and they were wanting to send searchers in underneath, but they were afraid that it was going to slide off one way or the other. So, they put up there on the center line to cut those beams, grab them with the excavators, and try and pull it away. and it walked the end and and we were successful in doing that. And it's a lot it was a long uh process to be able to put it up there and get that captured where that when they pulled it, it fell just like >> it would take a whole shift to cut through one of those beams. >> Yeah. It was it was cuz then you had to dig out underneath it and cut or cut windows to get in it. And it was it was a pretty detailed um and the time just kind of flew by. you know, next thing you know, we were we were out. The next bunch would come in. But but we would that that's primarily a lot what we did at that time was search the stairwells was uh once you could clear where you could start doing some some stairwell searches, uh we searched subway underneath the the subway tunnels and things like that. So, and again, you have to remember we have a the team that searched with us, they've got canines that they send out as well. those cameras uh and we if they find something then that's where our expertise come in to breach or break the concrete or to delayer that building and start moving >> gra and grain access. So that's that's that's what we we did up there and and it was just a like I say a daily uh whatever they would call up and then then you'd send your squad in to go go meet up with one of their representatives and and and follow through with the with the mission. So, with that search you're talking about, was there ever a moment in time to where you thought y'all may find somebody that's still alive or I know y'all got y'all got deployed later on? >> Uh, you I don't think I think our was a discussion after a couple of days recovering that >> we kind of gave up hope of that. >> Well, >> just because the sheer magnitude of >> the we couldn't find anything that you recognize. >> That's what I was going to going to mention. >> Off the the typewriters. never find a office chair, a file cabinet, anything else uh size recognized. >> It had been that compression of that that building coming down had completely pulverized everything in in its way. There was nothing left quarter mile high shredded. >> Yeah. >> So, was there parts throughout that that your faith in humanity was kind of restored? you know, it went from a tragedy, but just worked alongside uh >> Well, I think of the patriotism that you saw up there that we don't see a whole lot of right now in our country. And it's sad, but uh and and we were at such a divide, right? It seems like, but after 911, there really was a we were one nation. We came unity. >> Well, I think it showed that most people are good. We uh the the firefighter, he was a retired fire fighter from New York that lived in Florida >> and had two sons working the the job. >> One's a firefighter. >> Okay. Yeah, that's right. And uh when it the came on the TV and it became obvious what when what had happened, it told the wife, "I've got to go." got in the car and headed back home to New York to serve in the in the uh recovery efforts and we met him up on the pile working order still >> us to kind of he was 76 years old >> did take care of him >> say so >> his his wife told him you don't have any business going up there he said we'll fight about that when I get home I still remember him saying that >> yeah right so so you kind of go through that and then it's time to come back home. So, what was that like coming back to the house after seeing everything that y'all just witnessed? >> We didn't talk about much. Um, >> back in those days, you didn't talk about your feelings and uh uh if something upset you or whatever you you know, that wasn't something that we openly talked about with one another. It took years for us to get back to that. Uh, a lot of people wanted to know about stuff even when we went back to the station. You know, what was it like? And you you just didn't have the words. Um, I I can remember getting on the bus for the drive out of town with a a feeling of a job not completed. And I know that's not reasonable because the job wasn't completed. >> That was another year, but we have left before our that's something we generally never do on the job. you don't leave all the things still blazing that feeling of incomp completion I guess. So, I think it's fair to say. I mean, it obviously it changed you as a firefighting character. >> He likes Yeah, it's it's things you'll you'll you'll not forget. You just uh and again with this 25 years coming up, it's it just seems like it it's it's gone by so fast. And I can't believe it's 25 years has passed since then, but uh kind of snuck up on us. Yeah. >> Like falling off a cliff. So, as far as uh what would you like people to know about the firefighters that went up the tower that day? Oh gosh, they were doing a job. Uh at a ceremony earlier today, the commemoration of this, someone had had said uh couldn't understand why they did it. And in interviewing the individual, he said, "Well, it's what anybody would do." And I think that's the way we all feel. You find yourself with somebody in distress or injured or uh whatever the case may be in front of you and you can help. That's what you do. >> And for those that weren't around, you know, like I said, we're talking about pagers and and now cell phones. We've got generations of kids who they >> Yeah. They don't know where they were at then because they weren't here. >> Sure. You know, we've got kids on the job >> that have done that. What what would you like those the generations that came after that that didn't even weren't allowed to witness? Uh well, I I I think the the um I guess the drive, the passion that you that remains to be able to again problem solve. Uh to me the the the thing I I'm I I seem to want to be able to do is to help people of course but you want to and this is cliche we we all in the fire service here but you're meeting that person probably on the worst day of their of their life but you want to be able to solve or help them eliminate the problem they've got right then and that's what we try to do is is eliminate the problem and that gives you a success. you you you feel good about that that that uh that you've done your very best. Uh but I think you got to have faith in your family. You got to have faith in God. You got to have faith in the training that you did uh to be able to deliver that success and uh and be safe about it and and that's all you everybody wants to go home at night and uh everybody wants to do a good job. If you if you don't want that passion and you don't want to stay engaged in this business, get out of it. This is not for you. And uh and it's not a bad thing. You can go do something else. It's it's nothing to be ashamed of that you that you you're you're you don't want to do that. But uh but if you chose this as a career, I I urge you to to uh to be good at it and and uh and strive for better. >> That's just me. >> And a philosophy for us is has pushed us to be the very best we could be. on and the philosophy that's helped me through the entire my entire career is and especially for those young firefighters you were speaking about don't internalize the responsibility for what you respond to. But uh friends and family have always said, "Well, how can you deal with these people in these horrible situations?" I said, "Well, first thing you have to realize is I didn't put them there. I'm here. I'm going to do everything I can to get them out of this situation, but if I wasn't here to help them, I still wouldn't have put them there. It's not your fault because you went to the scene and tried to help. >> And for those, you know, we talk about the never forget, right? Um, what does that personally mean to to y'all? >> Well, I'll say that, uh, that could happen tomorrow in Fort Worth or New York or any other city anywhere. And it does happen all over the world all the time. And I think that um the the people that respond to that are trying to do the very best they can and they're not putting theirelves first or their families. Uh they're putting people that they don't acknowled. So I think it's important uh again with this 25 years coming up but not to ever forget about the the service that happened there and the loss of life that we suffered uh in that attack. I mean through you know almost 3,000 people from there that the uh uh Pentagon that lost people the aircraft that those those people that were in that airplane that that went down up in Pennsylvania. So all of that and and and and another thing to think of is is the impact that it had on families and other uh uh people that were in that area. We won't know the the the extent of of sickness and illness that has come from that from cancer from uh breathing those those combustibles that were there heavy metals that we we our particular task force has had two uh line of duty deaths attributed to 911 uh for that was four now. So so that's that that that that's something that you don't want to ever forget about. uh is there there's a risk involved in this business and uh and we have to be deliberate about that and think that's that's mine. I don't forget that. >> Well, I I see it uh like Mark Twain said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. We will never see another incident that is 9/11, but sooner or later there will be something that resembles it, that rhymes. And uh don't be shocked by what has happened. Assess it, evaluate the situation, and figure out how to solve the problem. Uh panic and running around with your hair on fire is not going to serve anybody. >> All right, we'll kind of round it off. Got one more left. If you could go back and talk to the firefighter you were on September 10th, 2001, knowing everything that was about to happen, what would you tell that kid? That kid can mean >> Yeah, I don't think this man's ever been a kid. >> Goodness up a little. >> Yeah, I wasn't either. I was 43. >> Yeah, it's all kind of >> Well, that younger version of yourself, >> younger dude. I'll take that. I'll take that. >> Know your job. Learn your job. Be the best you can be. uh try to bring as many along with you as you can. He's got five instructors. There was five instructors on his squad for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. And we all taught down and and and that was another thing we brought back. Not not on your question, but we brought that back from 911 uh was the the skills that were going to be needed. That changed because uh before the urban search and rescue teams that were in the FEMA systems were really responding to earthquakes. That was the uh and then they had the Oklahoma City bombing that happened and and of course that was a a terrorist attack. But but the the framework of that of the whole system was based on earthquakes on the east coast and the west coast. So after that is when it really turned into more of a um an allhazard response if you will. Uh Katrina came along after that. Uh we had to get boats involved in in our response. Wide area service. >> No, we're never getting in the water they said. >> Isn't that Yeah. But but but but we've progressed so much over these last 25 years uh in in our response in the in the urban search and rescue arena. Anyway, uh not just in Fort Worth, but in the entire state of Texas, especially our our state assets through the Texas Department of Emergency Management, uh again, they go out every every incident that comes. That's one thing I think Texas can be very proud of is that we are prepared for uh disasters here in emergencies that that may affect our state and again on a on a on a national level we just roll that into into helping there as well. So uh that's that's something I think that >> and for has been a huge part of it. >> Absolutely. Absolutely Warren because we provide a lot of good >> they have a very good reputation all all around the country especially in the state you got 28 guys that are out working right here their fires are swept water today plus the additional however many went yesterday well actually I don't think they went because they have so many people out already >> but having them prepared and having them ready to go has been a big deal to me uh because we just didn't know any better that you 25 years ago that this stuff >> Yeah. was made. >> Yeah. And if you remember 25 years ago when we first started, it was very we didn't do that. Uh they didn't take people from the fire service and and deploy them to the state for for assets. That was brand new. That had just that concept had come about. And now you have the tithmas teams, you have the water strike teams. uh you know, we've got other entities that within our fire service that are that are dispatched to help with federal and state, but that was a that was brand new 25 years ago. And uh and that was uh was something again we for just has always been involved in and I give Chief McMillan a lot of credit about that. uh he was part of uh the advisory uh board that originally formed uh Texas Task Force and uh and some of those chiefs that were uh had the foresight to to to look ahead at at the needs for not just the city but the state of Texas. That's >> true visionaries. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.