2025 Undergrad Econ Debate: Is capitalism the most efficient system?
Watch on YouTubeVideo summary
The debate centered on whether capitalism remains the most efficient economic system for maximizing wealth and innovation or if its inherent flaws necessitate significant government intervention. The affirmative team argued that free markets and private ownership drive efficiency through a profit motive that incentivizes creativity and adaptation, citing historical progress from the Industrial Revolution to modern technologies like electric vehicles. They presented data linking high GDP per capita directly to economic freedom, while clarifying that successful nations like Sweden and Switzerland are capitalist economies where taxation funds public services rather than replacing market mechanisms. Conversely, the negative team contended that unregulated capitalism leads to systemic instability, extreme wealth inequality, and environmental harm, pointing to the 2008 financial crisis and the concentration of wealth in the top ten percent as evidence of its failure to prioritize social welfare over shareholder profits.
A significant portion of the discussion focused on the definition and reality of Nordic models versus pure capitalism. The negative side asserted that Scandinavian countries are not examples of pure capitalism due to their extensive government intervention, state ownership of key industries like Norway's oil sector, and collective structures, arguing instead that these represent mixed economies that correct market failures. In response, the affirmative team maintained that these nations still operate within a capitalist framework defined by private ownership and wage labor, with welfare programs serving as necessary corrections to inequality rather than socialist replacements. The debate also touched upon corporate power, with the negative side highlighting scandals involving Purdue Pharma and the Ford Pinto to illustrate how unchecked profit motives can endanger human life, while the affirmative countered that consumer demand in free markets actually drives sustainability and that regulations make capitalism more humane without stifling its dynamic efficiency.
The closing arguments highlighted a fundamental disagreement on the role of government and the metrics used to judge economic success. The affirmative team criticized the opposition for relying on emotional appeals rather than statistical evidence, emphasizing that high-development democracies thrive under capitalist principles that raise overall wealth levels. They argued that the trend toward less direct regulation represents a shift to agile, indirect interventions like monetary policy rather than a retreat from state involvement. On the other hand, the negative team challenged the concept of economic freedom, suggesting it is often conflated with consumerism and an illusion of liberty that allows corporate marketing to undermine long-term stability. They argued that Adam Smith's "invisible hand" has historically enabled greed and monopolization, asserting that humans cannot responsibly manage unchecked corporate power without leading to poverty and unhappiness. Ultimately, after weighing the arguments regarding wealth generation against social equity and stability, the judges deliberated and awarded the debate to the negative side, concluding that capitalism in its current form is not the most effective system.
Read the full video transcript
Good to go. Y good afternoon everyone.
Uh thank you for coming. My team and I
are excited for this opportunity. Uh and
we wish the best of luck to our
opponents.
Uh I'm Matt and our team is the
affirmative side for capitalism being
the most effective economic system. When
it comes to economies, we should all
agree that some aspects of an effective
economy would include putting money in
the hands of consumers, incentivizing
advancement, encouraging innovation,
providing people with freedoms and
opportunities, and increasing the
standard of living. Capitalism is the
best economic system to achieve these
goals through its free and competitive
markets and private ownership of
businesses and properties.
When it comes to putting money into the
hands of consumers, capitalism has been
proven to do this better than any other
economic system. In this graph, the
x-axis is the country's score in the
index of economic freedom with a higher
score, meaning a more economically free
country. The y-axis is GDP per capita. A
clear trend shows that a freer economic
system increases GDP per capita. In the
economically free capitalist countries,
uh GDP per capita comes in at
$63,588. While in the least economically
free countries, GDP per capita barely
reaches
$7,716. The most economically free
countries including Ireland, Australia,
New Zealand, Switzerland, Hong Kong, and
Singapore are all considered to have
economies based on capitalism.
Additionally, when it comes to
development over time, in the last 25
years, countries gaining economic
freedom have an average annual growth of
GDP per capita of
2.6%. While countries losing economic
freedom have a growth rate of only
1.5%. To go more in depth of how
capitalism produces these results,
capitalism puts money into the hands of
consumers mainly through wages. Private
businesses compete with each other to
produce goods and services and achieve
this by hiring workers and paying them a
wage. However, capitalism doesn't limit
people to just that income as people can
invest their money into things like the
stock market and real estate, making it
so consumers can gain wealth through
labor and ownership. Due to capitalism's
ability to put money into the hands of
consumers, there is no economic system
more effective than capitalism.
Hello everyone. My name is Andrew and I
would like to thank you for listening to
me speak today. In in this debate, I
will argue that capitalism is the most
effective economic structure because of
its incentive incentive structure which
drives both innovation and economic
growth which in turn improves the lives
of everyday people. Let's start with one
core principle. Incentives drive human
behavior. Capitalism is built upon the
simple yet powerful truth. In a
capitalist economy, individuals and
businesses are rewarded by m for making
better products and iterating on
processes to make them more efficient
and cost-effective. This is all driven
on by the profit motive. The profit
motive acts as a signal both as a signal
and a reward. When somebody creates a
product or service that service that
people want, they earn profit. That
profit isn't just money. It's feedback.
It tells businesses that you're doing
something right. This feedback loops
pushes companies to improve, to adapt,
and to listen to consumers and to simply
be better. For example, the profit found
in the medical industry leads to
life-saving innovations in
medicine. So, in short, capitalism
harnesses self-interest and transform it
transforms it into social benefit.
And contrasting this with a centrally
planned or command economy with the
absence of profit incentives of often
leads to stagnation, inefficiency, and
waste. People have no reason to work
more than the bare minimum to go above
and beyond or go over the quota. When
bureaucrats instead of consumers decide
what gets produced, there's no reason to
innovate or improve. And history shows
this clearly. from the consumer goods
shortages and black market in the Soviet
Union to the inefficiencies of state-run
enterprises around the
globe. Moreover, capitalism is
inherently adaptable. When consumer
values shift towards sustainability,
companies respond. Why? Because the
incentive to survive and profit demands
it. That's why things like green energy,
ethical sourcing, and corporate
responsibility are on the rise. Not
because of strict government mandates,
but because market
incentivizes people to to give the
people what they want. And let me be
clear, capitalism is not a perfect
system. But but perfection isn't the
standard we're talking about here. It's
effectiveness. And effectiveness means
allocating resources, encouraging
innovation, and improving lives on a
large scale. Capitalism does does all
three better than any known alternative
economic system. In closing, this is why
capitalism powered by incentives remains
the most effective economic system
because it dynamically responds to what
people need and want. Good afternoon
everyone. My name is Owen. The next part
I would like to touch on is innovation
within
capitalism. Throughout history,
capitalist societies have consistently
led the way in producing groundbreaking
technologies, life-saving medical
advancements, and sweeping improvements
in all quality of life. The industrial
revolution, often considered the
starting point of modern innovation, was
not orchestrated by centralized states,
but emerged naturally from competitive
capitalist economies like Britain. Steam
engines, textile machines, and railways
transform industry living standards in
the course of history. Fast forward
today when we think about the
technologies that define our era.
Smartphone, electric vehicles, the
internet. We are looking at products
that were developed and refined in
capitalist economies. In fact, according
to the global innovation index in 2024,
the world's most top five most
innovative countries, Switzerland,
Sweden, the United Kingdom, Singapore,
and the United sorry, Switzerland,
Sweden, the United States, Singapore,
and the United Kingdom are all
capitalist economies. Why is this
pattern so consistent? Capitalism
fosters the kind of environment
innovation needs to thrive. Offers
freedom of experimentation and creative
risk-taking. It supports decentralized
decision-making, enabling thousands of
individuals and companies to
simultaneously explore different
solutions to complex
problems. Economist Joseph Joseph
Nipper, I'm sorry, captured this dynamic
through the concept of creative
destruction. The continual process in
capitalism where older industries give
way to newer, better ones. In capitalist
economies, this destruction isn't fear,
it's embraced. Companies that fail to
innovate lose relevance. While those who
bring transformative ideas forward
flourish without this constant renewal,
economies stagnate. Capitalism ensures
that progress doesn't just happen, it
accelerates. Moreover, capitalist
economies don't just invent, they scale
innovation. When the first computers and
cell phones were created, they were
expensive, rare, and exclusive. However,
through capitalist competition and max
production, those innovation became
accessible to billions. Today, farmers
in rural Africa use smartphones powered
by capitalist technologies to access
weather forecasts, market prices, and
banking services. A leap that would have
been unimaginable just decades ago. Even
in these sectors where public research
plays a role, such pharmaceuticals or
aerospace is just overwhelmingly
capitalism that transform research into
real world applications. In short,
capitalism creates the conditions where
innovation is not just possible but
inevitable. By encouraging
experimentation, embracing change, and
rapidly spreading new technology,
capitalism has repeatedly shown itself
to be the best system for advancing
humanity's collective future. For these
reasons, I strongly encourage you to
affirm the resolution. Capitalism is and
remains the most economic effective
economic system when it comes to driving
innovation. Thank you. All right. So for
freedom and economics opportunities for
the base theory capitalist theory
emphasizes that competition between
uh between businesses and consumers
overall the increased competition
benefits the consumer side. Competing
firms must offer better quality or lower
prices to win over consumers which is
drastically more prevalent in capitalist
economies that have uh freedom of choice
and more overall choices for consumers.
This essentially empowers consumers and
forces businesses to serve at the
pleasure of the consumer also forcing
efficiency leading to much more natural
and econ and incentivized economic
growth. Economic freedoms are also have
been throughout history portrayed as a
subset of human freedoms. Economic
freedom concerns economic activity such
as working, transassing, holding and
using and holding and using productive
and private property. When individuals
are more economically free, there are
few and less severe constraints on
economic choices besides forms those
constraints that protect the rights of
others. Then um in his theory, Milton
Friedman argued that competitive
capitalism separates economic power from
political empower. When livelihoods do
not uh depend on state permissions and
controls, citizens can finance
opposition parties, independent media,
nos and lawsuits that check rulers
leading to more uh free and incentivized
political structure. According to the
institute of de libertat economica, the
most economically free and market driven
countries have an average GDP of six of
nearly eight times. As previously said,
this um not only leads to lower poverty
levels but also increased funding for
social programs through taxation and a
ra standard of living which also
increases personal choice and freedom
and opportunity for all individuals. Uh
to visualize this we using this chart
right here. It shows uh the correlation
from the human human freedom index on
both personal and economic freedom. The
the scale is an 0 to1 scale and it has a
uh 0.73 correlation showing a clear
positive correlation between both
personal and economic freedom which has
various impacts both and the economic
state and political state of each
country for capitalism as a social means
for social funding and expanding on and
kind of the overall political scale of
state control. Capitalisms can enhance
social programs and public welfare
through mechanisms such as economic
growth, innovation, job creation,
philanthropy, and uh public private
partnerships. Capitalist economies often
experience higher growth rates leading
to increased tax revenues that fund
social programs.
Okay. For instance, countries that have
embraced market reforms have seen
significant income scrapes income gains.
For example, a study by the independent
institute found that nations becoming
more capitalists over a 25year period
experienced a 43% increase in average
income and nearly half a decrease decade
increase in life expectancy.
Additionally, capitalism fosters
competition and innovation leading to
advancements that can be leveraged in
public welfare programs. According to
the center for strategic and
international studies, the US private
sector in 2021 invested 62 billion in
research and development, accounting for
nearly 75% of the nation's total R&D
spending. These innovations often
translate into proved public services
such as healthcare technologies and
educational tools. Overall, due to the
higher revenue generated by capitalist
economies, there's much more money
available for the public sector
investments such as education and public
healthcare programs. And there are many
approaches made by various countries to
public sector investment and government
integration economies.
Um in the I don't know in the US news
list of most um the high highest
standard of living countries the one or
countries 1 through 23 had either a
capitalist or mixed market capitalist
economies and making up the vast
majority of today's advanced economies.
Examples include the countries of
Western Europe, Canada, Australia and
others. These nations have substantial
government sectors such as taxfunded
education, healthcare and social safety
nets. But the core productive engine is
still capitalism. The as income is
funded by private businesses, market
prices and competition that drive most
of the research allocation.
um m common misconception is in Nordic
countries countries such as Sweden,
Denmark and Norways that are off that
are frequently rank high among the
standard of living indexes. Um these
countries are oftenly mislabeled as
socialist or state controlled. However
to the critique is however most of their
own leaders are quick to correct this as
as once said by Denmark um prime
minister Lars Ramusen. Uh he said
Denmark is far from a socialist plan
economy. Denmark is a free market
economy. The Noric model combines free
market
capitalism and
um with also a strong sector of public
sector investment that are capitalist
funded but organized and paid through
through higher taxation.
uh overall the outcomes of the
capitalist economy includes higher GDP,
higher innovation and lower poverty and
but it's and although despite the
crucial role the state and public center
advances isn't crucial that the
underlying economy remains flexible and
market driven. Hi everyone, my name is
Kunal. Um capitalism improves the
quality of life through social funding
initiatives providing consumer choice
and increasing social mobility. When we
talk about the effectiveness of an
economic system, we must ask a simple
question. Does it improve the everyday
lives of people and capitalism
consistently does? Capitalism creates
wealth that funds social initiatives.
Capitalism provides consumer choice and
capitalism enables social mobilities. It
through wealth it uh it also allows us
to fund social initiatives like
healthcare, education and
infrastructures. countries often held up
as examples of strong social welfare
like Nordic countries have all adopted
the model of capitalism.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Affirmative
side. Next is the negative side for
another 15 minutes and I'll give you
guys time to plug in your computer.
Capitalism has proven itself to be an
ineffective economic system. America is
in freef fall. The unprecedented nature
of the levels of vast opposition and
political allegiance have resulted in a
completely unpredictable economy and
social environment. To start, the US has
dropped on the world happiness index
since 2012. And while non-capitalist
countries including swin Sweden and
Finland have seen an increase, the 2008
financial crisis cost the US government
over 498 billion in revenues amounting
to 3.5% of GDP at the time. The co9
pandemic resulted in a 9.5% decline in
the US GDP. The Congressional Budget
Office uh estimating that roughly 7.6
trillion will be lost in GDP between
2020 and 2030. And other capitalist
economies in the U, the EU, Canada, and
the UK suffer as much as a
194.4% drop. Many mixed economies as
opposed to traditional capitalist
systems suffered significantly less
during the affformentioned events with
the Nordic countries experiencing less
than 4% declines during COVID and Japan
experiencing a 4.6% decline. This merely
scratches the surface of such statistics
such as GDP fluctuation, consumer
confidence index, financial risk,
inequality and government intervention,
and negative externalities in capitalist
versus non-capitalist economies.
At the root of any capitalist economy is
the business cycle monitored by the
central bank, the Federal Reserve in the
US. The Fed can stimulate economic
growth. However, this does not foster
continuous growth because after so long,
people will begin to ex invest
excessively or malinvest. Uh the excess
supply is met with a lack of demand and
the bust cycle sets in where investors
begin to lose money as their assets
decline in value and the economy shrinks
into a recession. The 2008 financial
crisis highlighted this. People who had
invested in the housing market became
unable to afford their mortgage payments
and the market collapsed. Another aspect
of capitalism that has been scrutinized
by economists and social critics is the
wealth and power allotted to
shareholders. As Milton Friedman
articulated in his doctrine, the only
real goal of business should be to
generate profits for the shareholders.
He further elaborated that no company is
obligated to engage in social
responsibility unless the shareholders
choose to. By this mentality, the
shareholders choices are the only say
whether or not a business should operate
for social benefit. Not all businesses
decisions are ethical or made with
social interest in mind. Contrarily,
decisions that solely benefit
shareholders often have negative
consequences for society as a whole.
Focusing only on generating profits
leaves out consideration for potential
negative externalities like pollution,
fair wages, or donations to the
community. Shareholder investment makes
up a substantial portion of a capitalist
economy. The attitudes of investors
dubbed animal spirits by John Maynard
Kanes have detrimental effects on the
level of GDP. It is this volatility,
Kanes argued, that virtually controls
the economy. It could change at any time
and therefore is there is no reliable
way to predict or anticipate it.
Capitalist economic systems are set up
in a way that the higher a person's
income, the lower percentage of taxes
they pay. Some argue that those who make
more deserve to pay less, while others
argue that person's income alone
shouldn't determine their tax
percentages, as countless other factors
can be worked into such an analysis. For
example, many people argue that small
business owners uh are supported by
regressive taxation. However, just
because a business makes over a certain
threshold in revenue does not
necessarily equate to the owner's ending
salary. Capitalism creates an
environment that not only allows but
also encourages inequality to flourish.
In capitalist enterprises, there are
very few people who hold the seats of
power or leadership. The majority of
people are employees who provide labor
but are never fully compensated for the
full value that their labor adds to an
output. Despite the laws in place, which
are by no means enough, capitalism
results in the exploitation of labor
that causes unparalleled inequality. We
can observe how capitalism has
perpetuated inequality by examining
historical events particularly in the
United States in the 1930s. The primary
argument for capitalism during this time
period was that it facilitated the
development of a more powerful middle
class. And this was true following the
great depression. The working class
experienced significant gains due to the
new deal and the establishment of social
security and the introduction of minimum
wages. These innovations were seen as
evidence that capitalism was superior to
other economic systems throughout the
world, specifically that of the USSR.
But this assertation ignores two key
facts. One quote, "The middle class
status achieved by a large portion of
the working class happened despite not
because of capitalism and capitalist
says um Richard D. Wolf and a professor
Matrius at UMass Ammerst and these
developments were primarily employed
were primarily employed socialist
policies and ideas which are standard in
mixed economies not capitalist ones.
Additionally, these victories were hard
battles and their strength appreciated
over time. As of today, the federal
minimum wage is $7.25 which has remained
unchanged for 16 years. Additionally,
with each capitalist crash like that in
2000, 2008, and 2020, we have seen
inequality worsen. Capitalism also
causes significant wealth inequality. In
the US, the top 10% of people own 74% of
the wealth. According to the Credit
Swiss Research Institute, wealth
inequality is built over generations
through inheritance and participation in
a system that lacks equalizing measures.
In other countries using that that use
mixed economy system, there are
significantly smaller wealth gaps. These
countries continue to experience
economic growth, suggesting that
capitalism is not the sole means of
achieving high levels of economic
growth. The Nordic countries are an
example of this. In an Iris University
article, it says, "The Nordic countries
provide a good example of welfare
states, which together with
well-developed educational systems have
provided an economy with a highly
educated labor force, and this has
boosted overall development. The
economic model used by the Nordic
countries focuses on economic security,
efficiency, and productivity, which
contrasts that of the capitalist country
of the US, which tends to have higher
insecurity, higher unemployment rates,
and a greater fear of poverty.
Inequality is a very real and hazardous
result of capitalism. But there is not
simply a connection between capitalism
and inequality. Capitalism causes
inequality. It does this through two
value assumptions. The assumption that
wealth provides happiness and the
assumption that wealth provides power.
The first assumption, wealth brings
happiness, is the underlying assumption
behind profit motive, one of the basic
building blocks of capitalism. While
this brings incentive to create
technological advances, it also brings
incentive to hoard wealth, fostering
inequality. Furthermore, capitalism has
no use for those unable to obtain wealth
in the first place. As they are of no
use to the system, the system has no
regard for their well-being.
The second assumption, wealth brings
power is more insidious still. Those
holding wealth can buy their way to
political power and keep their wealth
regardless of their investment ability.
Even worse, they can pass this wealth
and power down to their children and
their children's children children's
children. Preserving inequality
throughout time on the basis of what
family one is born into instead of the
hard work one puts in. If a system built
on these two assumptions, wealth is
happiness and wealth is power leads to
an unjust inequality, can the system be
justly called effective? The answer is
clear. No. Next, we'd like to discuss
yet another ineffective result of
capitalism, a lack of government
intervention. Although Liz is fair,
where supply and demand controls prices
and private enterprise directing economy
may lead towards economic growth and
innovation, there will eventually be
instability with not enough regulations
and intervention by the government. No
regulations in an economy will lead to
inequality, environmental damage,
decline in welfare, and fewer public
services for society. Firms will become
monopolies and all gopies under
capitalism as they take advantage of the
minimal regulations from the government.
Capitalism creates profit based
incentives for firms to primarily focus
on maximizing profit and save the
quality of life of residents. Some could
say that having the government intervene
with businesses set rules may slow
economic growth, but the spending the
government does when implementing
regulations would create economic growth
and equality at the same
time. Government spending is a comp
component tracking GDP and is an
essential contributor to economic
growth. There are talks of a recession
occurring right now since there are a
lot of cuts in the department of
government efficiency. Well, which
proves that government plays an
important role in economic growth and
stability. According to a Massachusetts
Daily News article, there's a high
demand for housing but a low supply
buildings in Amherst which which promote
which which leads to higher costs to
afford living space. An example of a
regulation is rent control which
promotes promotes stability by limiting
the rent a landlord can charge to their
tenants each month. This creates
equality since a wider range of buyers
who have different levels of income can
spend on their living expenses. In a
capitalist economic system, minimal
government regulations benefit landlords
since they can charge higher costs
without having to deal with certain
limits and loss. This leads to
heightened stress and decreased
well-being for the vast majority of
renters. There are acts supportive of
government intervention and equality and
economy. The envir environmental
protection agency of 1970 supports the
supports the environment from being
negatively affected by firms. The
Federal Trade Commission of 1914 helps
protect consumers and avoids unfair
business practices. And the Sherman
Antitrust Act of 1890 helps prevent
monopolies from occurring to create
fairness in an economy. Overall,
government regulation helps promote a
platform for equality in society and
growth in an economy through spending
for the welfare of the public. The
short-term benefits of government
regulation outweigh the long-term net
cost society pays through taxes.
Industrial policies are important since
governments can prevent market failures,
stimulate the economy, and address
social and economic inequalities. The
spending from the government produces a
less capitalist economic economy, which
promotes equalizing institutions.
Economic growth from government spending
will replenish the growth of private
enterprise and generate equality for the
public. Capitalism is a fundamentally
flawed economic system as it is evident
that they will prioritize economic gain
over environmental sustainability, human
welfare, and equity every time. When it
comes to the depletion of natural
resources, can a system be truly
effective when it does not care about
the well-being of those living under it.
Capitalism is incompatible with
environmental conservation, and it has
shown it will prioritize profit and
monetary gain over environmental
well-being. Firms under capitalistic
policy will consistently ignore
ecological harm in order to increase
short-term gain, completely disregarding
environmental health. Historically,
industries under capitalism externalize
environmental costs such as pollution
and carbon emissions. Because if they
were to pay attention to these issues,
they would have to sacrifice
profitability.
Oil and gas, two of the largest and most
influential sectors in the world,
continue to fight against the use of
renewable energy despite the
overwhelming amount of evidence that has
highlight that has highlighted fossil
fuels are the main contributor of
climate change. As the CDP's
groundbreaking carbon major research
reveals, the 100 active fossil fuel
producers are linked to 71% of
industrial greenhouse gas emissions
since 1988. This is not just a
coincidence, but rather a direct
consequence of the systems framework
itself. In a profit-driven model,
environmental degradation comes the
price that companies are willing to pay.
Capitalism views the earth as a pool of
infinite resources. However, it only has
a finite number, and as such, it is
apparent that the current overuse of
them is unsustainable and threatens to
cause irreversible collapse if left
unchecked. Consumerism is also a major
flaw of capitalism. Accredited professor
Dr. Diana Stewart dives into her
research on how in the US production
drives consumption and advertising
promotes false needs and excess leading
to negative externalities. These power
relations are concealed and they
undermine social and ecological
well-being in the process. Continued
support of increasing production and
economic growth will undermine efforts
to reduce carbon emissions and limit
global warming. Effective mitigation
efforts will require significant
systemic changes in work, production,
consumption, advertising, and social
norms. None of which would be possible
under the current system of capitalism
we see specifically in the United
States. Studies, including one by
National Geographic, prove the obvious
that reducing material consumption would
reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
However, US companies continue to push
the narrative that consuming has a
positive return for all because it
stimulates those businesses and provides
the consumer with the short-term
satisfaction of a product. Why aren't
our citizens happy then? Dr. Stewart
states that producers, the capitalists
and owners rely on consumers for
increasing economic growth and use
ideology primarily communicated in the
form of advertising to create willing
subjects. These subjects keep consuming
because they believe increasing
consumption results in increased
happiness. Consumption is part of the
good life. Consumption relates to their
identity and status and they need
certain commodities to address
dissatisfaction. This connects back to
the low happiness index of the United
States and how we are eternally stuck in
this capital loop of consuming to try
and achieve a happier and more fulfilled
life. To look at an opposing way of
life, we can see how successful the
Nordic model has been in Denmark, which
is a welfare-based economy, featuring a
combination of free market activity and
government intervention of economy. The
focus on welfare and social support has
kept them in the top two for global
happiness. Whereas the US has fallen to
the 20s. Instead of a system where
happiness relies on working in order to
over consume, feeling limited rewards so
you continue to fall into that endless
cycle like in America, Denmark offers
free university tuition, a high quality
of education, no fee public healthcare,
has a focus on community activities, all
with a fair work life balance leading to
better lives for their citizens without
susping to a full form of capitalism.
There is clearly a direct correlation
between a country taking care of their
people and maximizing utility of
resources and influencing overconumption
leads to wasting these resources and
wasting our money. Exposing the
hypocrisy of this system, capitalism
focuses on maximizing profits,
prioritizing production over people. The
high pressure economy that capitalism
has created pushes for more output
without regard for the well-being of
workers. Under capitalism, labor is not
a valuable human contribution, but
rather a commodity that can be bought
and sold. Capitalism uses technological
advancements to maximize efficiency at
the expense of workers. These
technological advancements have
neglected the workers that are less
skilled. AI is not a tool for
efficiency. It is replacing real people.
As a result, workers are being laid off
and jobs are being outsourced. This
objective to drive production, cut
costs, creates instability in the job
market. Capitalism promotes cyclical
unemployment as a system follows a boom
and bus cycle where it is inevitable for
unemployment to go up during economic
downturns. Especially when inflation is
high, the Fed takes measures to cool
down the economy, which will lead to a
spike in unemployment. and the Fed's
tools in raising interest rates to slow
down inflation and bring up unemployment
through the low slowed economic
activity. Capitalism is a system that
rewards reckless financial risks,
supports unjust inequality, lacks
government intervention and leads to the
negative externalities including
environmental damage, overuse of natural
resources, consumerism and unemployment.
These things necessary in capitalism do
not emerge from all other economic
systems. It is for these reasons that
capitalism is an ineffective economic
system. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
Negative side. Uh we'll now go into a 5m
minute break and then we'll go into
rebuttals where teams will go back and
forth starting with the affirmative side
and you'll have four minutes for
rebuttal but first a little fivem minute
break.
Okay everyone please sit back
down affirmative
side you guys have four minutes to start
your rebuttals.
So what was previously mentioned in the
uh human development index um although
it was um nuanced in that it was
mentioning HDI as opposed to GDP and the
argument itself ended up centralized on
human happiness.
Um there have been several studies uh
within the discipline of political
economy in which it has been shown
multiple times that personal wealth um
does correlate with health outcomes in a
gradient.
Um so and another component of that is
half of the countries in that map um
like the ones with the highest HDIs um
ended up being from Western Europe, the
Gulf Cooperation Council, East Asia and
uh North America. So it is pretty
telling uh the stat the statistics
alone.
Um, I think a lot of what we've been
seeing in the other team's opening
arguments have been uh strong levels of
what they're describing as either
welfare capitalism or forms of
capitalism that are heavily regulated.
Um, regarding
uh regarding the one of the main themes
of uh the other team's arguments is that
capitalism exploits workers to maintain
profits. But within the United States,
uh we have seen a long history of
um concessions being made from both
public and private sector actors in the
low part of the business cycle.
[Music]
Um in who rules America, for example,
William G. Donhoff distinguishes between
ultra-conservatives and regular
neoliberal conservatives uh alongside
the liberal labor alliance.
Um the the main distinction between the
first and second group is that
ultra-conservatives tend to um want to
crush labor as opposed to being driven
by an actual incentive uh to support
labor. Um and I think capitalist
economies could do that very
efficiently. So as long as the right
regulations are in place. Um, for
example, in the 1930s, FDR's
administration forged a coalition
between labor unions and Democrats,
known as the Liberal Labor Alliance,
which was instrumental in advancing New
Deal legislation such as the uh Wagner
Act. Um, and this is what bounced us
back from the Great Depression. Um,
building off of uh the volatility
argument is that whenever there ends up
being a risk
uh in the long term we basically are
able to stabilize booms and busts as we
innovate policy through capitalism which
is highly adaptive. Thank you.
Capitalism also uh there there has been
an argument against us saying capitalism
causes exploitation exploitation of
labor. Um historical data has been
showing that developing countries have
been actively participating with
capitalist economies have resulted in
their very high growth on their end and
the exploitation can definitely occur
but it is we have to also consider the
part of the argument that there are
ineffective government systems in place
which can which could lead to such
execution and it is not the core
capitalism concept itself that leads to
that. Thank you.
Okay, negative or yeah, negative side
now has four minutes for rebuttals and
then it comes back to affirmative for
four minutes. Uh so I think one of the
big things that both sides have brought
up um has been uh happiness looking at
happiness as a measure of uh an
economy's effectiveness. I think it
makes sense um because you know what can
what is an economy um and what is good
in the world if not happiness? Um and so
I think that our um opposition here has
brought up two very good points. Uh the
first that economic freedom and
happiness are both positively correlated
and the second that uh happiness and GDP
GDP per capita are both positively
correlated. Um but what I where I think
they went wrong is um in the assumption
that all happiness is equal. uh you
know, how can you really say that the
glee you get from I guess vanquishing
your enemies is equal to the love that
you get from building community? You
know, one of the one of those is
inherently good and one of those is
inherently bad. Um and that I guess the
question posed to all of us is where
does consumerism fall? uh once you take
account for um once you take the uh
happiness score and then you divide it
by e uh GDP per capita and then you
relate that to the economic freedom
there is a glaringly obvious negative
relationship. Um what this pretty much
does putting happiness over GDP per
capita is it gives us a measure of
non-consumerist happiness. you know the
uh kind of happiness that you can get um
from not necessarily buying material
things. Uh all that capitalism gives us
as you can see in these two graphs are
is a consumerist happiness you know
based on not what one is but what one
has and so I guess the question kind of
to all of us is how do you value
consumerist happiness? How do you value
a a happiness based on based on, you
know, what car you buy, what car you
drive, or what house you own? You know,
uh I think that pardon me for being
idealistic, but I think that something
based upon community, based upon, you
know, freedom, and based upon uh just an
overall, you know, feeling of connection
both to your surroundings and to your
purpose in the world is much better.
Capitalism does not give us this. Thank
you very much.
Um and then just to add on to the
argument of waste as well. Um ultimately
we can't really look at how capitalism
is uh assisting our GDP when for example
even the economic impact of just food
waste costs an estimated 22 $218 billion
which is 1.3% of GDP. So when we really
break down these elements of capitalism
that seem to be profiting, they're
leading to these effects that are
actually causing a decline in our GDP,
especially uh I think it's important to
focus in on America because it is one of
the greatest capitalistic uh economic
systems in the world. So looking at
that, seeing how much waste is created
and looking at how these welfare, even
these welfare capitalistic uh economies
in other countries are still based in
socialist values instead of the pure
capitalist values that we see in
countries like the United States
creating all these negative
externalities and waste. And yeah, I'll
end it there. Okay, we're going back to
the affirmative side for another four
minutes. Okay, so the opposition has
made very uh various claims that
disprove capitalism. However, they're
very hard to actually depict. For
example, h happiness. It's very
difficult to quantify happiness, it's a
very theoretical theoretical and
personalized index. However, unlike the
human development indexes and GDP, it's
a lot more easily quantifiable and
measurable as well as being less
personalized and skewed towards bias.
Also um since the Nordic countries have
been depicted as capitalists by their
own leaders, it is safe to say that they
are still capitalist based and less uh
socialist base as their um programs that
are used to
to limit um and uh reduce inequality are
actually funded through free market
capitalism and capitalist gains. They're
just taxed at a very higher rate which
means that they have slightly more
government control. However, all the
money still comes from capitalists.
However, this also does lead to the fact
that the opposition has still not given
an alternative form of an economic
system that would be inherently better
than capitalism as their only references
have been towards more socialist
countries. As for the environment, um
capitalism also does offer a very
effective path to environmental progress
by providing flexibility and incentives
needed for innovation. However, um also
capitalist offers the opportunity for
market based incentives which are a lot
easier and incentivized for companies to
follow such as carbon pricing, green
investment and um pagobian taxes.
Additionally, um the state controlled
economies such as China and have had
traditionally and the USSR have much
traditionally poorer environmental
records as well. I just want to touch on
two arguments made by the um other side
and it has been of happiness. Happiness
I think it's uh as Matt has already said
it's really difficult to quantify
happiness into a into a particular state
and uh he has given the example of
Nordic countries using um their reforms
uh and adding happiness and like leading
the uh stage on that. Uh I just want to
add to that and and and and give it as a
base that capitalism provides a base for
other socialist reforms to exist in the
first place. These countries made a lot
of uh their wealth through capitalist
systems that they had in place and they
made sure that uh once they are in place
and they and they took their social
benefit out of it so that the other
systems like healthcare, education could
be benefited more. Uh I would also like
to uh talk about the waste that has that
has been claimed capitalism ended up
generating. Um, capitalism has always
been centered around the value and the
value is quantified in terms of the
demand what the people are looking for.
And if people are prioritizing their
goods, their prices beyond if people are
prioritizing their goods and their uh
needs beyond the waste that's created by
them, those are consumer preferences and
capitalism makes sure that consumer
preferences are taken care of. What
could be added on here is more
regulations and
uh a mix in terms of
uh the consumer demands, the consumer
choices. If the consumers have been
adding on let's say in terms of the
electric uh mobility and and the and the
electric car market, people have been
demanding more energy conscious uh
solutions and then the market has
reacted to it. we now have the greatest
uh uh mobility solutions in terms of
movements uh in place to actually make
sure that there are more sustainable
solutions in place. Thank you.
Okay. And then finally back to the
negatives for another four minutes then
you have a two-minute break before
questions from the judges. Uh so a
couple things I wanted to point out.
First of all, uh when talking about the
Nordic countries, I know they've been
brought up a lot from both sides. Uh
mixed market economies differ from
capitalism in the sense that uh welfare
capitalism is based on government means
governmentowning means of production
which directly contradicts the pure
definition of uh true capitalism which
is a completely unchecked economy. uh
you know the the firms have all pricing
power and and are not like overseen by
any government or any type of
regulation. Um this is not the case in
many of the Scandinavian countries that
we've mentioned. Um there's direct
government intervention and government
oversight of firms and corporations. Um,
I also wanted to bring up Japan is uh
uses a system that's referred to as
collective capitalism, but basically
what it is is companies own shares of
other companies. So like it's the the
basis of if one goes down, they all go
down, which directly contradicts uh what
capitalism is is meant to represent. Um
in terms of I know you brought up
economic
incentive. Uh the efforts of consumers
collectively are stronger than that of
the companies alone and consumers are
influenced by things like uh we
mentioned green initiatives and uh
environmental factors and also uh
workers wages and labor unions. I know
you guys stressed that in your argument,
but labor unions are specifically uh
fought against by the corporations that
hold power in um capitalist systems. So,
if anything, uh corporate power works
against labor unions and and the
government does not stand in the way of
labor unions in the way that individual
corporations do. Um you brought up
innovation and technology. uh cap uh
technology and capitalism have no direct
correlation. Checking the power of
corporations does not hinder economic uh
and technological progress. If anything,
government intervention incentivizes
companies to publicize their innovations
rather than uh keep them uh private
which has been known to take place.
Um success in technology does not
necessarily equal progress because of
unequal distribution of wealth and
privilege um that are caused by the
capitalist structure. Um company power
and company ethics. I know you mentioned
uh
pharmaceuticals uh and that immediately
made me think of um Purdue Pharma and
Johnson and Johnson in the opioid crisis
and to think that the corporations knew
the lethal uh qualities of Oxycontton
and the drugs that they released and
didn't do anything about it. Also, uh
there's an example of General Motors and
Ford uh in 1971 released uh the Ford
Pinto which
um its engine would combust on impact
because of a design flaw. and Ford knew
about this and they not only uh failed
to make the design uh innovation to to
the simple design fix to to remedy this.
They put a dollar value on the human
life and estimated that the rough uh an
estimate of 180 deaths per year caused
by uh crashes of the Pinto would be less
costly than making the innovation to to
change that into to make the design not
lethal. Um you mentioned you mentioned
economic freedom being associated with
capitalism and I I just don't see a
direct correlation between the two. You
also talked about poverty. Um poverty
will be the direct result of the wealth
gap uh brought on by capitalism. Thank
you. Okay. Thank you both. Now you guys
both get two minutes or just a little
two-minute break and then we go into
judges questions for about 10 minutes.
Each judge is going to ask a question to
a side. So they're going to be six
questions total, three on each side. And
each side will have two minutes to
answer the question.
Well, so thank you both sides. Uh really
nice and excellent.
Um I guess I guess I will ask uh to to
both sides if you'll take just a a
minute or two to define what you mean by
capitalism on on each side and
especially in the context that you're
both referring to Nordic countries as uh
evidence for your side.
Our team would be defining capitalism as
private ownership of the means of
production. uh the means of production
being land, labor and capital which is a
key characteristic of the economies that
we see that have functional monetary
systems as opposed to central planning.
Um obviously the Nordic countries would
be much closer to uh this definition of
capitalism than a traditional form of
market socialism or social democracy.
Obviously, um at the same time, I think
a really good example of this is the
fact that these Scandinavian countries
end up benefiting from
uh large scale capitalist activities,
right? Um yeah. Yeah. So essentially we
summarize capitalism as just it's
characterized by private ownership of
both business and property and is also
has various characteristics such as free
and competitive markets, wage, labor,
commodification and of all like
incentives for innovation and
technology. The Nordic countries
specifically are still free markets as
they're actually ranked among the
highest countries in the world in terms
of economic freedom and also their um
economies are still lack state
controlled. their um programs to fund uh
inequality measures to improve that are
funded through taxes which are
essentially the income comes from
capitalists and free markets and it's
just um used with taxes at a high rate.
Um yeah so as to the point uh that there
is uh capitalism is the private
ownership um in the Nordic countries
that we've been so referring to and so
loving um the state owns the not the
majority but they own key kind of
industry areas um and they are run
throughout like in Sweden they have
public healthare um as opposed to um the
US uh and they also have I know in
Norway they have a the largest oil
company is also uh owned by the state
and these things uh give them kind of an
advantage. Um and these things you know
especially these key industries um where
the economic system is really important
they tend to be more socialist or maybe
even communist um and not necessarily
capitalist. Um the second thing with
economic freedom, uh the way I see it,
you either define it as how capitalist a
country is and um you uh kind of you go
from there, uh and um you you have to
kind of bite the bullet that it's really
giving you a a happiness based on
consumerism or you find another
definition for it in which it's not
necessarily capitalist and then you
don't get the Nordic countries as they
are. So either way, you kind of you
lose. Um yeah, thank you. I think it's
important to also look at the fact that
for example a country like um Denmark
which does have a welfare based
technically capitalist uh economy
because it is the uh businesses that own
it. The government intervention is so
much stronger than we see in a purely
capitalistbased um economy. And I think
we have to remind ourselves that the
question is um if capitalism is the most
effective economic system and a solely
capitalist country as we've broken down
like with the United States for example
is evidently not the most effective
because where there are pieces of
capitalism in the countries like the
Nordic areas it is not their sole
economic system because they are um
valuing welfare and social practices and
complete government intervention.
Um thank you very good cases. Um I have
a question on um the role of each system
in another system. So we all know that
uh there is an affordable care act
uh like in the heart of the most
capitalist system in the world in the US
and also there is the case that uh there
was a new economic policy uh in the
former Soviet Union. So my question to
both sides. So to you uh to the yes side
um what is the role of
the socialist system in the uh
capitalist frameworks and for the no
side um what is the role of the
capitalist system in the socialist
systems? So do they benefit or they're
harmed by that? So what do you think
about that? Thanks.
Uh yeah. So the role of the I guess the
capitalist part of uh a country like
Sweden or like Norway uh would be that
in like in the non-essential
um in the non-essential categories and
in the non-essential industries I guess
you would have those be privately owned.
Um and I think really if you're looking
at comparing two systems you kind of go
got to go all in on one or all in the on
the other. I think we've kind of made
our point as as what to what can happen
when you have complete capitalism. Um,
and I would argue that is much uh much
worse a scenario uh than if you had
complete socialism where if the um the
state took over the running of the of
the non-essential industries as well.
Um, going off of the idea of how uh a
capitalist society would work for a
socialist society. Uh we were talking
about the profit maximization of
capitalism and how it was just would
just harm a socialist society because of
its um exploitation of the workers as we
mentioned before and how it just hurts
the quality of life for workers and how
inherently uh innovation creates
exploitation of workers because of the
profit maximization.
I know you mentioned the Soviet Union
and if I'm not mistaken how it might
benefit from or how we should argue to
assessments. Yes.
Sure. Sure. So, I do want to go back to
the idea that capitalism is an economic
structure and not necessarily a
government structure. And we're arguing
that
um it's an ineffective economic
structure, but we can't necessarily say
that that a government at its core
will like abuse its power or not. And in
like the example of the Soviet Union,
obviously the government abused its
power, but this went farther than just
the economy in the sense that
um like the social welfare as a whole
was was taken away by the fact that the
USSR that is time. Okay. Unfortunately,
thank you. And final questions. Um to
answer the question what is the role of
social systems in the capitalist economy
I would first like to mention
distribution of welfare um social
elements like progressives of taxation
public healthare and social security um
help red dist red dist red dist red dist
red dist red dist red dist red dist red
dist red dist red dist redistribute
wealth throughout the economy um
addressing inequality and also um
unfettered capitalism can produce
correcting market failures is another
one we also have economics
uh stabilization within
um regulation and protection within
labor laws, antitrust regulations,
consumer protections. Um we also have
public ownership and strategic sectors
within within like water,
transportation, energy may remain under
public control to avoid monolithic abuse
and ensure universal success and access
across the economy. In essence,
basically um social systems don't
necessarily oppose capitalism. Um they
make it more humane, inclusive and
sustainable by checking it by checking
its excess and red rest redistribution
its gains which and yeah it's about it
for us. Uh to build on his point I think
that the role of uh socialist system in
in mixed market economies is to correct
market failures. And also I would like
to point out that
uh the market is also a great mechanism
that it can work faster and respond more
dynamically than like for example a
government could. Like in the Soviet
Union,
uh the bureaucrats focused he more
heavily on putting resources into heavy
industry and arms manufacturing and that
left a hole in the in in light industry
and things like textiles and consumer
goods and that created a black market in
which the market could expand and give
the people what they want. Your time's
up unfortunately. Okay, final question.
Again, thank you again. enjoyed your
discussion. I have two questions. One
for the yes side and that is essentially
you make a strong case
that capitalism works well but you
describe it as requiring a certain
amount of intervention and a certain
amount of support. My question is how
come in virtually all of our capitalist
economies today we see a reduction of
government involvement. We see very
definitive movement toward less
government under neoliberal policies
that are being instituted in those
economies. So that's my question. How
does that match your argument? On the
other side, on the no side, my question
would simply be, how is it that voters
throughout capitalist economies are
voting for right-wing parties that
actively are dismantling much of the
welfare state? Okay, if you could
provide answers to those two questions.
Thank you.
[Music]
government intervention in uh capitalist
economies has I believe over time uh has
not only dropped down but I believe we
have built up a framework uh through
which we can which allows us in a more
structured uh intervention and in in a
more structured regulatory oversight uh
we have we now have targeted subsidies
we have we now have access to more
monetary tools that helps us uh build it
and I would like to call it more of a
shift instead of a shrinkage in terms of
government intervention. While
governments may have privatized some
industries, uh they have increased
intervention in others. Uh if if you
look at historical data, governments
have been changing the intervention they
have they have done in uh across
different industries. The modern
intervention is subtle. They have
interest rates which is part of the
monetary policy. They also have fiscal
stimulus and taxation policies and they
also have a lot of regulations in place.
As we move towards more globalization
and technological change, direct
intervention became less effective. But
that doesn't mean government stepped
back. They have simply adapted their
role to be more agile and indirect.
Social programs have grown over time.
Social spending in healthcare, pensions,
education as a percentage of GDP has
increased in most developed economies.
That is a socialist style intervention
funded by the capitalist growth that has
happened over the past few
decades. Thank you. So I do want to
point out that capitalism has sort of
set us up for failure in a way. I'll
give the example of small businesses.
Um, it seems like a lot of right-wing
politics, especially in the United
States, give out the narrative of small
businesses being harmed by government
intervention and by, for example, to go
on regressive taxation. I hear a lot of
arguments that um, small business owners
hurt from from the idea of making the
wealthiest pay higher percentages of
taxes. But if you really look between
the lines, small business owners
themselves, just because their
businesses are generating such high
revenues, aren't necessarily generating
high revenues themselves and therefore
aren't necessarily benefiting from equal
taxation and regressive taxation.
Uh I think a lot of right-wing
politicians celebrate the the lack of
government intervention and and
associate separating from the government
with uh freedom and in a way this can
it's an argument that can be presented
to a lot of people and people just like
the idea of freedom and they take like
the USSR for example and see where too
much government intervention uh took
away personal freedom. freedoms. But if
we look behind the scenes, I think
corporations are still have so much
power and are are able to monopolize and
create monopolies and igopies that um
take away consumer freedom without
necessarily the voters realizing. Um I
think it's also just important to go
back to what we were talking about in
opening statements as well that
capitalism has this inherent illusion of
power and wealth uh that it so
successfully has achieved which is why
we really have seen the right side um
win more companies through their
marketing and short-term monetary
rewards make consumers feel appreciated
and important and convince them to play
into this monetary system. The richest
people hold the most control and they're
only able to further and further take
off while people on the bottom are left
to suffer. Is that it? Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Thank you both sides and thank you
judges for the questions. And then we're
immediately going to go into our
two-minute closing statements from each
side. Starting with the affirmatives.
Right. Overall, the opposing argument
lacks statistical or evidence-based
support, relying heavily on emotional
and ethical appearance, such as
happiness as opposed to human
development and overall GDP measures,
which is considered one of the most
important based measures of economic
effectiveness rather than logically or
numerically proving their the systems
effectiveness. Many of their examples of
alternative systems are misleading as
their alternative examples still operate
within capitalist frameworks which
include mixed market capitalism. For for
instance, these systems remain rooted in
free market principles despite higher
taxes or public spending. The opposition
also claims that other models lead to
higher happiness or ATI. However, this
is sort of cherrypicking. Countries with
the highest development indexes such as
Switzerland, Germany, and Australia all
are capitalist and operate with free
market systems. Unlike command
economies, capitalist nations give
people the freedom to pursue their
aspirations. Their portrayal of
inequality and poverty was also flawed,
failing to acknowledge that capitalism
raises the best base wealth levels
across society, leaving not only the
risk to gain wealth, but also the middle
and lower class as well at a much higher
rate. Most importantly, no viable alter
alternative system based on a fully a
fully or more state controlled or fully
state controlled economy with less free
markets was presented leaving the
question ofam unanswered. If not
capitalism, then what system is actually
better? We've shown that capitalism
isn't just about markets. It's a system
that rewards effort, adapt to
challenges, and enables democratic
societies to uplifts the vulnerable
using wealth created by growth, not
ideology. Okay. So, thank you guys for
listening to our argument. I just wanted
to start by saying that this is a call
to action for the capitalistic society
that's happening in our country and how
our social systems are being corrupted.
Going off of the last question that we
received as well, even looking at our
public education system and how that's a
public right that everyone in the world
should have access to and how the
limiting education like taking away our
access to books does reduce our levels
of being able to participate in um a
government successfully. And that just
plays more into the capitalistic ideals
of giving the rich more and taking more
away from the poor. And I'll give you
over to Tom for the rest of it.
Thank you, Cassie. Um, in his 1776 book,
The Wealth of Nations, renowned
economist Adam Smith presented a theory.
To give him credit, it was an
opportunistic theory, one that
captivated the attention of new and
flourishing governments of the time and
would set the stage for the economic
system we know today, capitalism. That
said, Adam Smith was a very optimistic
man, optimistic to a fault. He put a
significant amount of faith in the moral
and corporate of corporations and
investors. And his theory of the
invisible hand, which puts market power
in the hands of corporations and their
shareholders has allowed for centuries
of greed, monopolization, and efforts to
generate as much short-term profit as
possible with little to no regard for
the future or the well-being of
individuals outside of said
corporations, not to mention the planet
we call home and society as a whole.
Adam Smith was not an evil man. But the
system he created is a disqualification
of many ethical and moral standards.
Though being described as being new and
revolutionary, it is actually the
opposite, allowing the wealthiest
individuals to adopt tyrannical powers
and widening the inequality gap on the
global scale. We as a human race have
thus proven ourselves incapable of
maintaining responsibility for corporate
power and thus a more structured system
must be implemented in order to check
the power of the individual. It is only
through freeing ourselves of capitalism
that it may free of all of it inflicts
upon us increased financial risk, unjust
inequality, lack of government
intervention, environmental damage,
overuse of natural resources,
consumerism, and unemployment. An
economic system that presses these
maladies upon us. Whether our systems
are available cannot be considered
innocent, effective, or even neutral. It
is for these reasons that we have come
to the resolution capitalism is not the
most ineffective system. Thank you.
Okay, thank you everyone for being here
and thank you for watching our debate.
And then good job to everyone involved.
Um, we're going to give the judges some
time to deliberate and then there's
pizza outside.
We we deliberated. Sorry for the the
time that we took. We But so I have to
just say we we truly sincerely believed
it was a very very very close
debate and
um our deliberation has has given it to
the the the no side.