2022-08-22 Keynote at IFIP WCCE

good morning everyone it's another beautiful day here in hiroshima on the second day of wcce how is yesterday it's very fine that's good very good yes we have the about the 150 over 60 attendant foot on here these large rooms and and another 150 or the more a participant in the another room and also that we have more than 50 participant is online uh thank you for the attend your attention today's keynote speaker is one you've already been waiting for all the return sum yes and then this sessions here by don't pass it if this is retails so the good morning and other sam good morning good morning yes so there i i moved to the my platform to the don sound please thank you and um good morning everyone um as the chair of ifip tc3 and on behalf of the wcc 2022 conference i have enormous pleasure in welcoming you audrey audrey tang to speak to us all this morning uh if i may say um a few words of introduction and background aututang is a taiwanese free software programmer and digital minister of taiwan she is recognized as one of the world's most successful open source software developers and she started her own i.t company at the age of 19. in 2014 she became a digital advisor to apple where she was involved in artificial intelligence projects such as the development of apple's virtual personal assistant siri following the sunflower student movement demonstrations the prime minister of taiwan invited audutang to create media literacy curricula for taiwan schools following this work in august 2016 she was invited to join taiwan's executive juan as a minister without portfolio helping government agencies to communicate policy goals and managing information published by government through digital means she became taiwan's youngest ever government minister in 2019 she made the list of the top 100 global thinkers published by foreign policy magazine with too many exceptional projects for me to mention during this brief introduction and without wishing to keep you from auditang's discussion of the questions raised in advance i will now ask minister tang to address this conference thank you and welcome hello uh good local time everyone i'm really honored to be here um as you can see uh there's already a lot of questions that was raised beforehand and i thank you for voting on it because uh in a duration of one hour it is not possible for me to give detailed answer to all your questions indeed that's 31 questions of less than two minutes each so it's very important that you let me know for example the top ones are already over 20 votes meaning that at least 20 people would like to hear my answer to it and there's this qr code feel free to scan it's the same link as you have received and continue voting on it it's continuous uh democracy uh indeed that's my job uh in taiwan it is to make democracy uh higher bandwidth lower latency and wider connectivity that is to say instead of waiting for four years uploading just a few bits uh in a paper vote which is still very important of course we need to include the very young people younger than 18 who do not have yet the voting rights or people overseas who cannot travel uh to vote into this kind of online voting so that we know exactly what is at focus for them and we can answer accordingly so without further ado i'll be very democratic and start answering the top voted questions from this point onward so the top question at the moment in elementary junior high and high schools in japan where teachers are too busy to respond to new educational needs including i.t information technology education any suggestions well it's not necessarily to spend your time on i.t actually the time spent could be negative that is to say i.t can save your time when you introduce that to your education consider if we do not use slider if we use built-in zoom q a if we uh make everyone type their questions and then a moderator will have to read through all the questions and there's no way for the crowd to moderate well that will be of course wasting time but with the pro social social media that is slido people continue to raise questions yet during my talk i can see at any given time what are the trending topics that people would like me to address so in that sense everybody save time and especially the lectures save time because we know what topics to focus on the most and even if you're not among the 22 who voted for this question it's like the game tetris you can see the next two blocks and maybe those are the questions that you have in mind and are waiting to be answered so it focused everyone's attention of the shared social object that is this discussion again this is uh in very strong contrast to the distractions uh data tablets and the screens that many teachers feel that if they're in the student's hands they will distract people from attending to the lecture so it all depends on how you configure the space if the space is configured to be pro social so that people develop bonds through the use of the same technologies or different technologies toward the same value same goals then the i.t in education become a time saver but to accomplish that it does require um competent planning but again i think many of your students are digital natives they already know many platforms beyond the slido uh that they feel comfortable collaborating in maybe it's scratch maybe it's online spreadsheets and documents maybe it's minecraft so i think it makes sense to join to meet your students where they are and convince them that you are part of the world of co-creation and so uh with that they can take care of a lot of mundane chores moderation indeed code can take care of that and then that leaves you with more time to actually address the questions uh and do your lecture and so on you will know that we did a asynchronous arrangement where the questions are collected beforehand in an online form and then put to vote a day before and all that through this asynchronous communication save everybody time and energy so i hope that addressed part of the question uh if you feel that your question has been abridged or if you need to ask new questions please just post them on slido i will look at it and surface it as necessary so 24 people would like to know is it possible to measure creativity educators need tools to observe with the learners the progress in obtaining creativity skills this is an excellent question to me creativity is best measured in communities if there is a community that is creative in their endeavor you can look at the signals like how much this question inspire other people 24 people gets inspired by this question so this question may may be more creative than other um questions but in isolation in one to one setting indeed it's more difficult to judge creativity because it may take a lot of different modalities and the teacher may or may not be an expert in all these when measuring those creative modalities so my suggestion is that instead of pbl as problem-based learning we need to imagine pbl as purpose based learning for example we're here to gather to share knowledge that's our purpose but in some of your classes maybe the purpose is to revitalize your nearby communities in taiwan we call it regional revitalization the same in japan or in some classes the purpose may be figuring out way to communicate about climate urgency again that is a clear purpose with this clear purpose well there's more than one way to do it people in many different modalities can work not in an individual to individual competition basis but on a co-creation basis and it's very easy then to see which ones are most creative for they may or may not be original but they build upon this shared purpose to lay out common projects and then of course phase command problems but if you start with small problems and exercises it's harder to measure creativity but with a larger question like how do we develop ways to build trust online that's a very very hard and very open question then it becomes easy in a community to see which proposals which activities are the most creative so a clear shared sense of purpose and a community connected to the purpose to me is the background to measure creativity of the answer to question so um shall i just just go on okay okay um 24 people would like to know in your opinion which country will grow dramatically in the near future for example 10 years well of course it's the internet the internet uh with the low earth satellites and many new technologies so-called 6g technologies in the future uh will connect people in a way that feels like our neighbors at this moment i'm just this two-dimensional image with of course hand gestures i hope translated uh properly but you do not feel that we're in the same room there's no co-presence right so i can share my feelings but not my surroundings not my ambiance but with 6g technologies in 10 years we will be able to communicate not just ourselves in a camera but uh how we feel in the surroundings the ambiance so for people in different places they will be able to connect in such a way that it feels like co-presence that if i look to the left to the right i actually see you nodding or if i have something to show to demonstrate and everyone can get a copy and inspect by themselves i can transfer the objects to you and so on so it will change the idea of neighborhood previously the neighborhoods are the people who physically are close to you but in 10 years neighborhoods will become people who identify with the same values as you people who share the same sense of purpose as you because the surroundings become transportable shareable over the internet so um there will be a lot of uh fractal-like snowflake-like small so-called countries jurisdictions where people would prefer to spend more time with and our idea of a overlapping citizenhood will change the idea of citizenhood previously is limited by the west valley and idea of the territory bounce where you are and your territory determine your jurisdiction and your country and so on but when people can join the neighborhoods that share the same senses purpose and culture well it becomes possible for me to be a time zone traveler like i already am i wake up in north and south america and travel to indo-pacific during the day and the evening i'm in every client in europe i'm already like that but currently uh in two dimensions but it will become possible then to feel like and physically among my compatriots uh of similar values and coaches despite that we're in very different time zones so uh i think the idea of a network state and overlapping pluralities of network countries that will be a reality in 10 years time hope that answered the question yes so 18 people would like to know what is special in taiwan's digital development do you think taiwan's policy can work in other countries for example if you lead japan's digital development what you do and what what is the difficulties um you're already having a digital minister uh and we appeared in uh panels to get both the current one and uh we maintain very good connections so i don't think that taiwan is so special in having a digital minister indeed you have a digital agency before we do next week we will have a ministry of digital affairs for real and i'll be the minister for digital affairs prior to that i'm a minister at large that connects different ministries together and we finally decided to bring in the communications the cyber security the platform economy the e-government into a new ministry inspired by the japanese action of the digital agency so in that sense japanese in the future or literally one hour in the future slightly in the future now um i i want to however share that uh we have because we joined later in forming a ministry of digital affairs uh we have a uh saying that broadband is a human right i think this is now shared by the japan government with the idea of no no one left behind but we also have another idea of we do not teach digital literacy we teach digital competence indeed competence can only be learned together it cannot be taught because competence is when you're creative literacy is when you're a consumer competence is when you're a producer so by making sure that people even in the elementary school co-create the worlds in which they learn this changes the motivation of the student from external which is validation on examinations and so on to internal meaning that they want to create the world and share it with the class with the entire country with the international community and they can create the materials that the people after them have access to so i think this is quite different in elementary school we stress that for example the air qualities are measured by the air box like a raspberry pi or arduino chip but that is collectively maintained by the students not only they can inform their parents whether they walk to work or have to take some transportation because of pm 2.5 they learn about data stewardship about data bias about distributed ledgers in a way that cannot be taught and can only be learned if you co-create the material that other people rely on so this is data democracy and digital competence i think this is a very important idea in education and i think we stand ready uh to share with all the jurisdictions that want to join us in learning from the primary schoolers not just teaching the primary schoolers of that answer your question so 15 people would like to know there are problems such as the difficulties of coordination between education elementary and junior high schools and university education like there's a gap and a mismatch between education up to the undergrad level university and after the graduation the education required in the industry so any ideas for how to facilitate the mutual cooperation excellent question now in taiwan we have up to 10 percent of students not connected um directly to the curriculum but they enjoy the same rise and privileges as students of their age we call them experimental education students in experimental education which may be home schooled group school institution school they explore ways how to solve this mismatch for example there's a middle i think senior high there's a senior high in the taipei city that is completely digital it doesn't even have a campus but the campus is distributed among the different places of learning but they coordinate like the minerva school they coordinate both face-to-face and online but there's no fixed site no fixed seat for each student and with this arrangement it's become very easy then to bring into the university even though they're just senior high to attend the university classes to share in the university resources because they are no longer bound by the space the same for the education required in the industry they can connect to the institutions very easily and very quickly so this reminds me when i was 14. i told the head of my middle high you know i can spend eight hours a day after school to do research or i can spend 16 hours a day to do research and the only thing that prevents me of doing research is not access to professors and so on because they're all available online it is just this law that says my parents will be fined there will be a monetary penalty if i stop showing to school in the middle school is compulsory education after i explain this the head of my school said well your email printouts and all this validates your claim from tomorrow you don't have to attend my school anymore i'm like what about the auditing what about the reports and so on and she said well i'll handle them for you so well it was before experimental education but already uh people in the positions of power instilled in me that i still believe to this day that the korea public servants are the most innovative people they can figure out ways even before you have a experimental education law to connect you to the communities of practice so as i understand many teachers are here attending this conversation so i would encourage you to think of ways that even within the confines of your current classes and curriculum and so on maybe there are ways to co-create the learning environment so that the students who feel a need to connect to the academia or the industry can begin doing so with the full blessing of you and the head of their schools for me it's life-changing and that led directly to the experimental education movement in taiwan and then now our basic education uh full of ideas like autonomy data competence and so on that was directly lifted from the research the lapse of experimental education we take the parts that worked and then put it into our basic education reform so this is like a relationship between research and development again this is also mutual cooperation someone asks i'm 16 a high school student what were you doing and interested in and when you're 16. um this is a nice segue from the previous question because i dropped out when i was 14. and then the research topic that i chose at the time is called swift trust meaning how come that people trust random strangers online so easily but in some anti-social spaces why some even very good friends when they interact in some specific way online it's very easy to lose trust and even block and unfriend each other why do online modalities lead to quick trust and quick distrust that was the research question i was very interested in however it's impossible to study this question without actually constructing various different spaces and interacting with people online so that led me to my startup that i co-founded with a couple other people when i was 15 years old we collectively built the first customer to customer auction site in taiwan the cool bid we built a search engine together we built many uh interactions online so that led me um to today where i'm still studying uh the same topic of course i've shared some of my learnings like if you're fast fair and fun it's easy to build trust but if you're not fast fair and fun it's easy to lose trust but it's not a fixed theory the theory changes whenever there's 6g there's share reality there's co-presence the theory must catch up with the modalities that we're interacting with so the point i'm making is that if the purpose if the open research problem is uh interesting enough then it's not just me it's people all over the world figuring out at first it's decentralization in the web now now a centralization in web 2.0 now we're looking at re-decentralization in web 3 and so on and all this lead to different theories of swift trust and distrust so i'm still in the trenches so to speak i still publish to the social archive uh the open access papers and so on uh so uh it's important to choose a topic that is open that is wide that's fast and fair and fun hope that answers your question so 17 people would like to know some elementary school teachers believe it is better for the development of children when they write and create products in a tangible way with their own hands it cannot be the same if it is done on the screen or virtually so how would you address them and how to appropriate initiate them to computers in the class i firmly believe that technology should adapt to serve the humanity it's not that the society to change to adapt to the technologists this is the most important thing it's variously called as appropriate technology or inclusive technology and so on so in this particular case we need to look at technologies that caters to the people who learn with a modality of interaction and only then can they be part of the class so which is why for example i always interact with a screen with a stylus uh this is my phone and i always interact with a stylus list that you think uh it's about android it's apple too i also have a apple pencil uh so in distance um because i think in a canvas and i find that only with a stylus or a pencil can i think in a way that is intentional if it is a touch screen it becomes not me swiping the screen very quickly it becomes the screen swiping me uh and so i lose my autonomy i don't have creativity anymore uh i become conditioned uh by the touchscreen i become very easily addicted maybe it's just me but i have a inkling that it's not just me so i have this discipline that i always interact with the screen on the pencil or mouse or keyboard or touchpad anything but a screen and i think this is a sign that i'm asking the technology to adapt to my particular psychological needs not changing my psychology into that of a addicted fear of missing out space just because the touch screen application developers want it that way and so to take full control of how the technology is deployed this is the most important thing just like a stylus can be used as a way to draw things we too should cultivate the kind of interactions on the classes that caters to the people who prefer more to that of a tangible so maybe you fold like origami and things like that but um you put it in a overhead camera so that the camera can during your folding uh figure out what you're folding and share it so that you can 3d print um your folding materials uh the products and so on so the people feel that oh when you're interacting with the idea the computer is here to help you to disseminate the idea to share the idea to find a community but the computer is not here to automate you uh to take your hands away uh from the act of creation um and i think the way that teachers interact with such technologies will have a defining influence on the students if the teachers is very afraid of technology uh distance themselves with technology then it's far more likely that a student will one day out of rebellion or individual asian or whatever uh just embrace technology with all its downsides this is very much like banning the certain discussions or banning manga or benny anime uh and so on uh in my childhood right so if the teachers take a uh distancing behavior then it doesn't work uh but during my childhood um for a while my dad uh tried to ask me to not play video games because he feels that video games are too addictive and then i asked him to sit down and play the video game i'm playing with me um it happens to be sid meier's civilization and i explained to him that i wasn't able to read the history books because i don't know what a a boat looked like uh that was before the steam engine and after the same engine and so on uh i don't have this firsthand knowledge of how it feels like to live uh so so far away back but with the game uh it becomes easier for me to imagine the kind of conflicts the kind of philosophies the kind of technological responses to the various historical moments and then it becomes easy for me to read will durant's history of the world that he bought which is a lot of paper uh tomes uh and without the the civilization game as kind of introduction course it's impossible for me to engage with the history books and just like the head of my school my dad is a very reasonable person uh and he became convinced uh and then we play some video games together so i think um it's important for the teachers uh to listen to the students but also to make your own intention um designs so that uh it's the video game of course but choose the kind of video game that resonates well with the history class without whatever class you're teaching and then you will be able to build rapport to build mutual support with your students and then the student will learn competence is only when you can design your own interactions with computers and with screens hope that your question yes um 18 people would like to know um emma clark memorial international high school student is there anything we should do while we are students what current technology is the most important to master that's actually two questions the first question i always stress you need to sleep well and sleep plenty i don't function well without eight hours of sleep but you're a high school student maybe you need nine hours of sleep it's up to you and if i don't sleep enough like if i sleep only for six hours i always make sure to take a nap as soon as possible to make up for the eight hours that i need because the debt by sleep deprivation cannot be repaid in the weekends uh it hurts the the brain the short-term memory does not write completely to long-term memory if you are in a state of sleep deprivation for as few as just three days so um if you study uh way late but you have to wake up early in the morning chances are that's uh the fragmented knowledge you write in your long term memory uh may be clouded in a way that does not uh create a canvas for creative thinking uh and that has this long-term effect and i understand japan just like taiwan is a society that provides hard work uh and so sleep deprivation uh may be a problem in your jurisdiction just like in hours so whenever i give talk to a high school student i always stress that sleep sufficiently there's a precondition of you actually learning anything now some high school students after attending one of my lectures eventually started a petition on our e-petition platform join platform that says the schools doesn't open the first class until i think it was nine or something but many schools that they uh were hailing from required that they are at school uh already at uh 10 plus eight or something and they think this is unnecessary because they were not doing anything anyway so it's just for the convenience or whatever so they asked the ministry of education to change the rules so that they can attend the class only when the first class begins so that they can get sufficient amount of sleep quoting me and interestingly um more than 5000 students sign on this petition very quickly and even that was during covid we held this online discussions where many high school students make very recent arguments citing the latest on the sleep research saying that the teacher's job will be reduced decimated if they do not sleep well or the students do not sleep well and finally the schools said that they require still one day a week for the announcements or the deliberations about the school's internal proceedings or whatever so one day a week you will still have to attend the school uh on 8 a.m or something but for the rest of the week um yeah everybody can sleep uh until the first class so it was successful social movement um so to answer the second half of the question i think the most important technology is thinking about democracy as a kind of social technology to think about ways to do governance that let people share their powers in a way that feels safe to them the joint platform combines a lot of cutting-edge research for example just like slido you can post your ideas and the counter points but there's no way to reply to each other so there's no room for personal attack but there is very easy for us to surface the most cogent points on the pro and the con so that we can focus our conversation very easily by the upvotes and so on so um by taking into the social interaction design we create a safe space for a democracy that makes safe power sharing easier for the principals and the ministry of education and this is of course i'm biased because this is my line of research but i really think that democracy as a social technology is the most important to muster because it allows you as a high school student just like in taiwan to take control of your fate even before you turn 18 and if you become an active citizen engaged in this way chances are you will also inspire other people most of the most important uh petitions most significant implications online here in taiwan were created by people around 17 year old and 70 year old working together because they both have more time on their hands i guess and also care more about the future sustainability instead of just the next quarters profit and losses so long-term thinking through democracy as a social technology i think this is very important to master together 18 people would like to know what is the major goals of life in your current point of view um to me the point of life is to leave the world a better place when i log out compare when i log in that is to say be a good enough ancestor now the idea of good ancestor is not new i certainly didn't create this many uh indigenous people in canada among other places have this idea of seven generations that is to say when we plan for profit and losses we need to think about people seven generations down the line to be a good ancestor not just be a good person to your current citizens because in a democracy it's easy to forget about future people because by definition they don't have a vote but if we only optimize for the people 18 years or older in the society then the people who don't have a vote are at its advantage it becomes easier than in the name of liberalism or market capitalism and so on to make decisions that make the current generation prosper at the expense of future generations this is an inherent issue in representative democracy so uh studying ways to live a life of good enough ancestor is to give the future generations a vote metaphorically speaking in new zealand for example the maori people the indigenous people have this idea that a wananui river among others have spirit and the spirit constitutionally speaking for them including the right to health the right to sustain and so on so just like a person this natural personhood idea takes the idea of this scentcity of health and life and so on i guess it's a river so the right to move i guess uh into account uh and they appoint uh the um stewards it's just like if you're someone who are represented by your lawyer and so on uh because you're too young or because if you don't know how the law works and so on so there are people who are speakers from the indigenous and from the government communities to take the representativeness of the river taking care of its future sitting on the board of companies voting uh on the decisions suing for damage and so on so representing this person uh this river as a person is one of the ways to invent in the democracies the interest of people seven generations down the line now good enough ancestor means we are not trying to be a perfect ancestor because again when we are creating solutions if we take away possibilities if we over concentrate power so that people younger than us do not have a way to change our solutions then maybe our solution seems perfect for our generation but what we're actually doing is taking liberty away from future generations but it's very easy to fall into the trap if you take an optimizing mindset like collect enough data like an ai calculates the most optimal utility function but most of the future generations need cannot be anticipated by the data of the past and the present so be good enough is also to ask ourselves in doing our design are we over optimizing for the present do people one generation two generations down the line have the means to just redesign completely if they face a very different threat a very different challenge like the kovit nobody designed for it but there was sufficient flexibility and agility in the design of our public health system so we can respond in time so again being open not foreclosing the future free the future this is also very important and a major goal of life to me 17 people would like to know what industry do you think will grow in the future about 10 years which is still underrated now this is an excellent question i think as i mentioned the industry or the business of making communities that people feel that they are also a citizen in you can call it world building i guess uh community building uh of course it's just like traditional community building but in a way that transcends time zones um this is a future i i won't say it's underrated because you hear all this uh cause to meta verses or things like that so it's not underrated but i do think that a lot of our conversations around meta versus was not around community building at this moment it was more about advertisement selling merchandise making sure that people have the coolest avatar and things like that of course that may be interesting uh from a design point of view but if people do not have the most basic right of determining what kind of community they want if they need to go through an intermediary a gatekeeper that takes i don't know 25 or 52 cut of all transactions uh and so on then it becomes harder to imagine community building it will be essentially the landlord uh setting uh all the rules about governance and the people who rent the room uh well they can be escorted out by private bouncers anytime right so if you focus on community building then the idea of metaverse must give way to the idea of a plurality so not a singularity where everybody meets on this flat meta verse but rather everyone has the ability to form new personal connections uh like email like podcast um there are decentralized technologies that freeze the future instead of constrains the future into a few bottlenecks or choke points so this idea of redecentralization i think that's underrated the idea of connecting to the social sector to the co-ops to the social entrepreneurs to community building and not captured by this um choke point capitalism that's a thing you can look it up uh not captured by choke point capitalism i think this is underrated now but that is the direction we need to go if we are going to grow a future where there are many different universes where we can uh freely associate among ourselves again retaining the freedom to associate to free speech and also to the press to set the ways um that frees our imaginations not in a particular way of formatting our expressions but rather to express the way we want to interact itself as a way to express the possibilities that imagine new ways of social organizations and so on that is very underrated at the moment so 14 people would like to know in japan communication on social media and the internet causes trouble so here's the question is this problem also happening in taiwan also are there any special communication issues related to the internet and sns in taiwan according to the vdam project for many years running now taiwan is identified by experts as the place with the highest amount of information manipulation attacks from outside of our jurisdiction that is to say we're subject to the most relentless assault of information manipulation this is quite unique in taiwan on the other hand this uh raised the the antibody the immunity the inoculation level of everyone in taiwan just like if you get repeated exposed to various different uh chronovirus variants at some point you will develop a very strong antibody that keeps you healthy against new greek alphabets new variants the same in taiwan so in 2018 for example we have a very special issue leading to the mayoral and referendum election that year we saw a lot of external advertisements on facebook and other social media that precision targets particular part of our voters and interestingly it's not on political issues it's on social issues there was a trending rumor that said for example the people in hong kong they're not protesters they're young people being paid two hundred thousand dollars to murder police to cause riot and so on was a very scary looking photo that was taken by reuters so the photo is real but the reuters report originally only said that there are young protesters in hong kong that's it but this alternate caption is something new it's manufactured and precision advertisements were used to change people's feelings around hong kong now this creates a particular challenge because we must not take it down if we take it down it actually feel conspiracy theories like this must be something right otherwise the state would not be taking it down so trying to take down or in like a coronavirus lockdown uh or any top-down um takedown uh measures that will actually feel uh a fatigue uh if you're in lockdown for too long but you you don't trust the government anymore because uh there's uh this lack of coordination among the community that was inhibited by the lockdown so in 2018 instead we chose a way called notice and public notice we noticed this but the state does not do fact checking instead we encourage independent journalists with contributions uh by for example the colfax project of the g0v community cofacts they work with the international fact checking network like tower fact check center michael penn but also our private sector trend micro uh who's called that's google look and so on to collect the signals it's like contact tracing we can see which variants of information manipulation are having a higher basic reproduction number a higher r number and the ones that do not have a higher r number uh because people voluntarily share the signals on the line platform uh you can long press and say i think this is maybe information manipulation and we get to see which ones are trending so the ones that are not trending we simply ignore them because they die out very easily but the ones that are trending the fact checkers focus their contact tracing their attribution power to trace this alternate caption of people being paid to murder police to the zhonyang zhang valley and the sword weibo account by the communist political and law unit so it occurs to everyone then that this alternate caption first appear on that weibo account and then people start adding on it so facebook and many social media they promise then to have this mandatory label so you can still share it but just like you can send spum but the recipient will see this uh this email is labeled as spon as a junk mail the same for the label the label will say then what is about you know murdering police whatever uh the photo is real but this caption is sponsored uh by the political and law unit of the chinese communist party uh click here to learn more and this is an independent investigation by professional journalist with the help of the citizen fact-checking community now if we take that down there's nowhere for the middle schoolers to participate in this collaborative fact checking only by leaving it up tolerating it a little bit but do contact tracing and so on can we actually develop antibodies together because when people see this with this label they're aware that a there's information manipulation going on and second maybe they also can participate in the fact-checking community these are the democratic competence digital competence that i was alluding to a few questions back so making those incoming virus um immunize the population by the people uh specializing in journalism civic journalism just like public health uh to take the mrna of the incoming virus uh change as by protein and so on we can make a viral vaccine that shields our our mind against potential new mutations of the virus of the mind i hope that answered this question so um with 10 minutes left left uh i must apologize because there's new questions coming up uh i answer one and there's new ones coming up so i cannot address them all maybe i can only address two more questions so mitsuka would like to know in the strive of democratizing technology how do we keep each individual including big tech accountable for their own actions and how do we share access when much of the power lies within the top this is a great question there's a power within a network so in a company for example if it's structured in a hierarchy or in a government ministry if it's structured hierarchically indeed the power lies in the top and they must be shared but it's not always easy on the other hand there are also uh network making power to use the term from manual castels now we're making power it's like a switching power the power is in the intersectionality of networks so if you are the only one in your hierarchy that have a strong positive support neutral trust with some other network where you are also not in the top this connecting power this switching power enables you to take account of this hierarchy with the viewpoint of that hierarchy and vice versa and then you create this horizontal power that connects different worlds together in a way that holds them mutually accountable so in a democratic society the role of academia of media in general journalism and so on serves as this connecting agency that makes the hierarchies that otherwise would not meet they will then have to meet with each other because otherwise they lose legitimacy one example about democratizing technology in 2015 when uber first entered taiwan uh they started operating legally but in just a few months they start recruiting people without professional drivers license and their idea very simply put at the time is that their code dispatch better than laws so in the name of efficiency people shouldn't obey the old laws but should indeed obey the new code and so that went viral as a so-called sharing economy but of course people didn't like the idea uh say it's not sharing economy they're not even carpooling uh they they are doing gig economy extractive uh economy or whatever now if we keep on this ideological debate we cannot solve practical problems the only way to solve this issue is to ask everyone who are a stakeholder who have a stake so we send to the taxi union to the uber drivers uber passenger everyone the same link it's like polis it's like slido but on police instead of this one-dimensional ranking like slido we have this two-dimensional canvas where you can see which people feel close to you you can see their sentiments like insurance is necessary registration is necessary and so what and you can like or dislike but the like or dislike simply put you in different clusters at a soft further distance not to shout down any person but for the people who are on different camps it has two effects first you see your friends and families feeling very differently maybe you didn't talk about this over dinner but it shows that it is possible then to have different ideologies while the second point while seeing oh actually for the majority of reflections after three weeks of voting without replying people can see that everyone sees registration insurance and so on these are important they feel that search pricing is great but under cutting meter not so great they feel like in the places where there's uh no uber service because they're too rural and so on the local co-ops temples churches must also be authorized not just for-profit companies to run their own fleets in a sharing economy way and so on so all these are the points the consensus the common points hidden in plain sight if we focus on geek economy versus sharing economy there's no way for us to know that actually we mostly agree with most of each other on most of everything and then we hold ourselves accountable saying we invite uber representative tax representative and so on and our agenda is crowdsourced just like i only answer to the top voted slider question they only answer to the top 10 sentiments widely agreed by the passengers and the drivers alike so uber then have to commit saying okay okay we will not undercut existing meters we'll make sure our driver have professional license and so on and so forth while the taxi companies who want to serve the rural places also receive new business models for for the past few years now uber is a legal taxi company the q taxi in taiwan but yet in the rural areas the co-ops the people who take care of the elderly and so on they can also get a professional driver's license and start carpooling or driving for tourism or whatnot so this is what i call people public private partnership starting with the norm that people broadly agree on amplify that with the public sector's platforms and then the private sector hold each other accountable implementing the same norms this is how we get the power that was previously concentrated at the top nevertheless agree because they see that their constituents their employees their members they already have norms they already agree with each other across those different hierarchies so for them to stay relevant they will have to share their power so i hope that answered the question so the final question then do you think that the study of quantum physics have impact on our future if so how will it impact well i think it will have a strong impact if only to free ourselves from the computational thinking that was limited by the phenomenon model a lot of people think about computational thinking in a way that is more about sequential um the factoring refactoring of large problem to the small problems the sequential processing the automation and things like that which is how classical computers work but because i study uh functional programming that's my professional training to me the world is not something that you you should commend and ask the world to follow your comment to me the world uh is um something that you observe with a value and then uh make sure that the world you observe um collise around the kind of value that you share with other members of the world and i think this kind of functional viewpoint although it was not a mainstream and nowadays more mainstream in computer science you will gain new boost if people learn about qubits about ion traps and all sorts of different ways to build quantum computers and free our mind about what computational thinking really means so thank you for the awesome questions and this will be the end of this lecture thank you very much uh minister thanks thank you very much for sharing your your insights and also for your very positive way of looking forward i think that this is uh so important for us um that we we need to take on board um a positive way in order for us to think about how to move forward not only for ourselves but for our futures and i i also um very much can associate with your thinking with regard to the um consumer producer uh i would call it a dilemma that we have and maybe how we balance that in the future um and also your your your great concern for democratization and how we view that across our our entire population and that we we don't forget that we need to take on board our young people um and that we we treat our young people with respect with regard to democratization so i thank you for your insights and your your ways of answering those questions and the attention and the detail that you've given to us thank you so much thank you thank you live long and prosper thank you thank you so much and on behalf of their participants on site again i i will uh give uh the great appreciation for uh to your uh address and the insightful talks so thank you so much and and also the uh the session chair don thank you so much for a very good and uh address and so the this session is uh finished and at this moment so thank you for all yes and so