20 Years of bavatuesdays — HD Replay 🎉

Well, that was I wasn't expecting that to go right to us. I'm used to the Reclaim TV introduction and the 35,000 things we do. Um, but okay, this is uh I'm Jim Groom. I'm here with Tom Woodward. I dragged Tom Warbert into this midnight hour um just because I thought it might be fun to do a 20 years of Bava Tuesdays stream, right? Um there were other people who like you should do it and then they all ran away from me. So here I am with Tom as usual. It's a story of my online life. Tom, you're kind of the MC of this. You're going to be kind of running the show. I'm at your disposal. We wanted to make this fun. So, I'm going to hand it over to you now if that's all right. >> Absolutely. I have deep and probing questions to ask you about your blogging life and uh we'll see if we can get to the to the gritty underbelly of Jim Groom on the internet. >> I'm here for it. >> All right. All right. So, so we're going to start off at the beginning here. December 13th, 2005 was your first post. That is 7,34 days ago. I'll throw this in here for anyone in Discord, right? Uh that's really impressive. Why aren't you committed enough to record this interview tomorrow >> on a Saturday? The the reason why is because I'm working on a diarama tomorrow of a big 4 foot VHS tape on Silent Night Deadly Night. Something you can read on my blog for those of you who still read. But that's the only reason is I wanted to get this out of the way today. I'll post it tomorrow even though the stream is today. But I did have to work on the diarama most of tomorrow to finish that up before Christmas. That's a a clever clever evasion, but I guess I'll have to let it go. >> All right. Should you really get credit for starting blogging in 2005? Cuz really, you you wrote one post and didn't even change the hello world. >> Well, to be clear, I did start blogging in 2005. It was December 13th. It was the end of the year. I didn't write anything else for the rest of the year. I came back in January. But I am not saying like blogging since this is really 20 years and technically tomorrow is 20 years of Baba Tuesday's post. So I don't think I'm pushing so much to 2005 thing as I'm pushing the 20 years thing. I like this. I feel good actually. keep them coming. >> There's another blogger you may be familiar with, Alan Lavine. He writes on Cog Dog Blog. Um, >> in 2003, he had 240 posts. How does that make you feel? Yeah, that so obviously people like Alan Lavine, Darcy Norman, Stephen DS, um, and there are many others, uh, Gardner Campbell, many people were blogging before me, um, who I came into the edtech space and they kind of were like, "Oh, I see how this thing works. Here's how you do it." like you know Darcy would always be documenting his stuff on Drupal and like I took that with the stuff you know you and I both I would use read your blog I didn't know you when I started my blog but you wrote about WordPress a lot and so that was the kind of mentality I got into this was going to be my WordPress sharing space and then I would talk about movies um but it's impressive that Allan had been doing it that long I think most of those were probably written at Maricopa in handwritten HTML and then imported over the years into that year. So it looks like a lot more than it is. I would say that >> now we um >> um so that's that's a trend that we've seen uh throughout your life. You've you've you've engaged with people online. um and then met them in person later. Who was the biggest disappoint >> of people who I met online? That's a really good and loaded question. Uh who is the biggest disappointment that I met online? You know, I don't know. That's a It's a trap. It's a trap. You could just say I refuse to answer. >> I don't refuse to answer it. But like there's also like people who >> when I met them, it's not like they were a big disappointment. They were just radically different than I expected. You know what I mean? And that's like I'll I'll give you a good example. like Alan Lavine, he is the most outgoing like you know just you know kind of the internet incarnate in some ways with how he does but when you hang out with him and you know he came and live with me for a while and we worked at Mary Washington you know he's really mellow he's not outgoing he kind of likes his space and and so like sometimes the internet will always create and we can be different characters on the internet, which is kind of what I like about it, right? Like I have a caricature on the internet, and I'm sure after a lot of people read my writing or have read it, I think it's changed over time, they now are probably like, "Wow, I was expecting you to be a a bigger [ __ ] or I was expecting you to, you know, yell a lot or whatever." And sometimes I do in person, but I think it's hard. But I I am gonna gracefully, that's all I'll say on that on that question. Next. >> Okay. >> At any point here, don't answer questions that will result in criminal prosecution. >> I was doing really good till that question. You did get me. >> All right. So, in your first post, you did promise um a blog dedicated to the Italian bee movie maestro Mario Baba, >> right? On your second post, not until January 19th. A whole year later, >> a year later, it was almost a month, more than a month later. To be clear, >> you doubled down with the offer of an anatomy of Mario Babos. >> Yeah. >> Available in weekly installments. >> Yes. >> Every Tuesday. >> Why did you lie to us? >> That's a good question. And actually, I >> Excuse me. I'm gonna go off camera for a second. Not off camera. Off mic. I actually did lie to you. that never came true. And that's been a a case like I don't know, you say things in your blog post, you probably deliver on them. I say things on my blog post, I don't I forget about them. I go on and do what I want. One of the reasons why my blog hasn't been really successful is that it has no rhyme or reason. People don't know what to make of it. It's hit or miss at best. But I did call it I wanted to do something every Tuesday because I had a group of people in New York and we met one Tuesday and watched the Baba the Mario Baba movie Planet of the Vampires. But we never met ne again to watch another Mario Baba movie yet. I thought that was the greatest name, Baba Tuesdays. So I kept it for the blog. I then wanted to live up to what I never did in real life on the blog. I never did it until Paul Bond and I did a full-blown Mario Baba um early kind of like video podcast where we discussed every movie he had made. And I did some really bad I I wasn't the best in the podcast. He was much better than me. He was much more prepared. But we did talk about like 15 Mario Bava movies in depth. And so I did make good on that promise, but it probably wasn't until like 2012. >> Well, and and and you say it hasn't been a successful blog, but you know, not to give you too much credit, but like we're here Sure you had to pay me. >> I mean, where's your chance? >> Let's be clear. Yeah, the success comes in a lot of different metrics. Uh yeah, but and I I'm writing a lot about that right now. But um but yeah, I it had my mind doesn't work like that. There are some people who I really envy whose blog becomes a very fine-tuned kind of like you know series of ideas that are related to a single thing or connected to a single thread and they're able to develop that and then it becomes obviously like you know they become a a master of their domain and they're big in their field and I don't think people think about that when my blog Uh well, and and to be clear, I'm not actually being paid, although I will accept funds from really anyone. Um Right. So, well, I mean, that's that's a question for you kind of like you start off, you think this thing's going to be about like this and that you're going to do stuff. >> Yeah. >> In a regimented way. Now, now knowing you personally, I can see you being interested in the topic, but but I cannot see a any scenario where you're doing something every Tuesday with any degree of regularity without someone helping you kind of do that. >> That is I think that's fair to say. I'm like the the ultimate squirrel, right? Like I'm interested in that. Like the dog sees squirrel like squirrel squirrel. Like I just watched this. That's what I want to write about. And I've come over the years to rather than to fight it, but to like, you know, embrace it. And I enjoy it. Like I enjoy kind of this is a space where I just kind of write whatever I want. I know a few people will read. You're probably one of them. And there's probably three or four more people out there. And then some people will say, "Oh, I wish you would write about things I'm interested in." But like that's cool. Like I mean I'm the I'm at a point Tom and I think you'll get a kick out of this. I'm at a point now where my kids are talking to me about my blog and they're like dad like so with the whole thing you wrote about like X or the one you're doing with the diarama post is what they really like and they're kind of into the movie post though they pretend my taste in movie is bad but they're wrong but like they're reading it and so like my youngest in particular who wants to be an artist is like that's your art dad you do whatever you want cuz that's your art and I'm like that I'm pretty bad Tom just to be clear about that. But um that's a really cool moment, right? Like cuz I never expected it. I don't talk to them about my blog. That's not something I ever brought to like the nightly dinner table. It's not something we would discuss. But naturally over time, they know I write. They know this is my little space and I joke about it and have fun with it. And I think they're kind of now in on the joke with me. And I feel like that makes it really rewarding, you know, in in a different way, right? Because if I'm writing for just three of my kids and five of my friends, I think, you know, that's like writing a letter to half my family, right? Like if you write a letter to everyone all the time, people like, that's really good of you. You know, you left a little chronicle. I I think that's a a beautiful way to frame it. And I'm I'm teasing you mostly with all of this um because that's what I do. But you know, like I I think that you know, you see so often like over the years people are like, I just can't blog. I don't know what to say. It's so hard to post. I can't do whatever. And I would say that's often because they set up a scenario that they hate and then they make these promises that they don't want to follow through on and feel bound by them, you know, whereas I would say honestly it's a positive that you said you were going to do all this stuff and then we're just like and just went on and did whatever you wanted because >> that's a good that's a good point and I I I think it's funny you should say that about the Mario Baba stuff early on because I've done that a hot. Like you could probably find post after post and I've gone through and archived a lot of my older posts. Like I promise a lot of [ __ ] that I never do. Like there's so many dead ends on my blog. Um and I think it's like the Winchester house, that woman who kept on building on her house cuz she Right. It's just that's kind of like my blog. It's like the Winchester blog. all these stairways that lead to nowhere and false doors and, you know, strange extensions that should have never been made. I think that's a good way to look at it. But there are some themes that have kind of stuck, right? The WordPress early on was a big one. When I got into arcade game refurbishing, that took a bunch of posts. You know, I've always written about movies more or less at some point. So, there are some consistencies, but um it's hard to find like a ruling thread. >> That aligns with what uh what Notebook LM had to say about your topics. There's some cohesion. It even gave you some credit about being centered. Um, and a couple >> Yeah. The whole >> Well, that's a weird thing like I've almost the Bava blog more than it being about topics was actually about the thing >> because I'm always referring to it as the Bava. It's almost like it became like a like a a joke in itself, right? Like I would talk about Baba Blog and like for me that's always just part of a sense of humor like that the thing is bigger than the actual writing. It's like having fun with what you're doing. So like you said when you wake up in the morning or you decide you're going to blog it doesn't feel like I hate my blog. I don't want to look at it. So, >> well, and you you are no uh stranger to celebrating your own success on this blog with numbers and things like that. So, I do want to bring your attention to the thousandth post on the Baba. >> I was going to write about that, too. You're good. Good eye. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're digging through the archives. Deep cuts. Um, at that point you're writing about 250 posts a year even with that like fake year in there, right? So really you should be around $5 now. >> And at that point, >> yeah, like how do you deal with that crippling idea that you're a thousand? >> Well, I actually that's interesting. I'm just going to look at that post quickly. Look at that old WordPress interface. How fun. >> Also note your comment to post ratio is insane. >> It's five to one and it remained four to one throughout. So actually even now Yeah, every post gets four comments >> on average. Yeah, it's crazy. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah, that I've always had luck with that. People have always been kind and that's cool. But to your point, and I think you'll you'll probably feel this too about this was probably 2009 when I wrote this. When was when did I write this? >> 2009. Yes. July 21st. It maps perfectly. >> Yeah. >> So 2009 is really when all of my little posts that I would write on the blog went to Twitter. So like everything that used to be on the blog, I'd post images. you'll see this post now my posts are like you know 30,000 words this post is like a paragraph and I felt fine like that was a great post now it's like if your post isn't a nolla you have failed it and that should have gone on social media you've done you've done yourself an injustice and so I think everything's expectations after Twitter and other micro blogging platforms like the blog became and you make a really good point early on even if You were joking like the blog became this thing where everyone felt it was an albatross. Like, oh, I could post on Twitter, but god forbid I have to put something on my blog. That's so much work. And you know, I had like a hund,000 tweets, which would probably be that five a thousand posts or 2,000 posts or 3,000 posts that I never put on the blog. So, I think that was the effect of social media. I don't regret it. I had a lot of fun on Twitter. It was a great platform for what it was when it was. Um, but I wish maybe some of that stuff uh had maybe remained around the Bava, but maybe not. I don't know. I mean, the mentality around blogging changed, you know, it just did. Everything got so short and everyone thought long form was only the blog rather than when everyone was blogging, it was whatever, you know, it was a video of Spider-Man. Check this out. Right? it was what it didn't matter. So I think that's it. It just the blogosphere was changing dramatically in 2009 2010 and that just accelerated until now. So that's why not I had thought about that one. That's another topic I had been thinking about as I'm going through the blog. >> Yeah. If I had had my act together, I would have had you a bar chart of posts per year. But there's only so much. >> But here's But here's You've done awesome already. But here's a point that's interesting. Um Martin Weller left a comment on a recent blog and he's like, "Look, you know, you're doing all this grandstanding, getting the 4,000, you know, good on you." But he's like, "Remember, I made a video for you of your 1000th post." And and he's like, "I'm not doing that again." And I'm like that actually that tracks with you know you forget like the commitment people had to each other's sites and the comments and that sense of like occasion that a blog like invited was you know something I still miss. Like that was a lot of fun. Like I used to like making those posts. I used to like commenting back. I used to really and I still like it, but I have very different expectations for it, you know. >> Well, it is different. I I pride a bit into and this is another one where like where I'm not I'm making promises to myself that I don't end up com being able to keep, but I'm going to be okay with it. I'm going to move on. Uh, I was looking into the sidebar of the Baba um at your link roll >> and what I wanted to see was of all these people under some favorites. >> Yeah. >> When what was the date of the last post for these individuals? think >> right because you get at that idea of longevity and and like how how many of these people are still >> I can probably tell you with some certainty who's still blogging Tony Hurst you Tim Owens occasionally Steven DS of course um Shannon Hower not for years maybe two years ago Serena Epstein no Scott Leslie no Paul Bond Yes. Mount Bankank. No. ML Garovich. No. Cfield, but in different places. He's on Substack now. Weller. >> Right. Oh, hold on. We got to stop on that one. So, he moved to Substack. Is he still blogging? >> Yeah, he is. I just read a post by him about uh you know, I don't really get upset about the newsletter stuff. Like, you know, I I probably benefit from it, frankly. you know, if I put my [ __ ] into a newsletter, I'm just too lazy. But I don't I mean, I think it's blogging. I think his if you read his last post about how he's using how he imagines AI for creating like this this model of experimentation and project building and kind of some of the stuff you're doing, I think um I like it. It's good post. You know, I think he loses out by having it in a new total place that I'm just not subscribed to anymore or I have to scribe in different ways. And so maybe just converting his original site into into a blog. But then he went to like Twitter. He did everything on Twitter for a while. Like he's like that. He'll up and move his stuff and but his thinking is still great. So I mean doesn't matter where he does it. And I don't I know Allan's like [ __ ] newsletter. As I woke up, Rip Van Winkle and everything's a newsletter, which I think is funny and I love his complaining, but I don't really have a problem with it. You know, Downs was always a blog newsletter, so it never really like struck me as like, oh yeah, that makes sense. >> Well, let me ask you a bit about that. So, you started at the well, not the dawn of time, but early early. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you went with WordPress uh versus say typad or blogger or >> I don't know what else did you choose between and why did you one right remember that yeah >> that's one and I remember that UBC so University of British Columbia blogs was on movable type multi-sight >> and then me and Brian a lot of our relationship was formed around him talking about getting off that and we had been blogged talking about that before, but you know, you and I were early into WordPress multicight, so that was that made a lot of sense. >> WordPress, I mean, I could say all the smack I want about it, but that was the best decision I ever made. It gave me so much to write about and think about, and I don't really love and care about the WordPress community in the same way I did once now, but I still love WordPress, you know what I mean? and what I can do with it and and what I I what it affords me. There's probably other tools out there like the static tools people were talking about. I loved Tim Clapdor's discussion about 11T at reclaim open. That was great. But again, their whole comment system is completely like it disengages and that has 16,000 comments, right? Like that's a big commitment to rethink that and that archive. So I basically still I mean until probably until blogging is completely dead or WG you know kills WordPress I'll probably still be on WordPress >> ride it on out. I was going to ask about your inability to change uh regarding Hugo Ghost >> the comments I think the comments on those systems like I think that's where as much as those folks kind of talk about it and I agree the commenting is [ __ ] I don't want someone to have to go through like >> you know discuss or something like that and give their data and then discuss. It's like it kind of gets it puts a middleman in between a system that was open, you know. >> I'm doing pretty good with the answers, Tom. Wouldn't you say? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to give myself credit for just being an amazing interview. >> Yes, you are. And you're giving me good questions. So, thank you. >> No, you know, >> um we've always made a good team. Uh, all right. So, you say in the post entitled, "Here's to 17 years on the Baba, another congratulatory post." >> You say, and I quote, "Why blog?" Because there is faith in a seed. >> Hashtag for life. >> I have two questions. Do you still feel that way? And are you a poet? >> I still feel that way. Yes. And I'm not a poet. Faith in the seed comes from David Henry Thorough. I'm stealing that. So I always steal that. I love that quote from him. I don't give him credit for it, BUT I STEAL THAT ALL THE TIME. SO I AM NOW officially David, you know, wherever you are giving you credit for that. Awesome. He wrote a book called Faith in a Seed and it's about one of his journeys down a river and he talks about botanical life, but he also comes up with that concept. And for me, the concept is great. I'll give you a good example here, Tom. I was in the doldrums two years ago, like deep depression. And so I was like feeling like, you know, what what what is going to give certain meaning and obviously beyond the, you know, you don't get meaning and get out of a depression by blogging. Like that's a whole another thing. I'm not trying to make light of it. But I came out of that and I was talking with my partner Tim Owens at the time and he's like, "Dude, like just set something up like we had at reclaim in Fredericksburg, which is what I'm sitting in now, this office." And he's like, "And you know, just do stuff like build stuff and like create it." And I think the idea of thinking of this space as like a physical blog and that window as a physical post and that really gave me faith and it gave me you know faith in the idea of creating stuff and kind of trying to separate myself from all the other [ __ ] that comes into one's life whether it's financial personal family you know I mean we all go through it and so yeah I always felt like the blog was a bit of an escape and oftentimes you say how much we've had a ton of fun. Like I look back on that stuff, it's just, yeah, that was like a great stupid idea that we executed and I'll have it, you know, like I'll have our radio show. I'll have our, you know, Second Life thing. Like that's just something we've done, you know, and I love that. And that's what blogging has been for me. kind of like these small stupid ideas that not all hit, not all make sense, but they give me a certain amount of faith still in the human mind to create and explore and stuff. So, yeah, I firmly believe in that. That was the first. The second, no, not a poet. No, definitely not a poet. I think I think you got away with words and we'll come back to kind of your uh thematic language use in a moment but you gave me an entry into another one uh which which I can't resist at this point because you have had some you know I think I I would call it two major high points in external recognition >> beyond the internal engine that keeps on promoting my own [ __ ] which is Well, and slightly beyond the edtech nerd community consisting of like four people in Canada and three other people in the United States. Um, and maybe an Englishman or two. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Or woman. I don't know. I don't know how you do that. But you have had some celebrity there, right? With Edgypunk and DS 106. you were in Wired. Uh, it may have been the Edgyp Punk may have been the word of the year. You >> your picture is in the Edgypunk Wikipedia article. You fought Steven DS uh at South by Southwest before it even >> was Gardner who fought Stephen D. I was just on the sidelines like what the [ __ ] going on? Well, you should have >> probably still holds that against me. >> Um, but now you're in a situation where no one will comment on your AI video game post. How do you deal with the highs and lows of of blogging celebrity? You know, I think that's a really good question and not that it fully, but I think there was a second there in 2008 when edge punk hit where I was like I'm kind of a big deal, right? Like, and you think that for like 10 minutes and then, you know, everyone around you, lucky I've had, particularly my wife and kids, you know, they're like, "Come on, get over yourself." And I I think that's important, right? like it was fun and I think that was it because it was always meant in the spirit of fun. You came out with your like Santa Claus, you know, Edu punk thing, the CocaCola, everyone was just having fun with it and kind of playing with it. So even if I took myself a little too seriously, and I probably did about that point, that was probably the point I would thought I was probably more of a big deal than I ever will be. Um, yeah, it was just good to have fun people around to say, "No, it's about this." And then we went on and that's we've done after that. We did all of our stuff with Second Life and so many other things I've done other than that Edge of Punk post I think were better and cooler and funner. But that's one of the ones where people hit. But that's the mix, right? Like that's when that happens, you know, that's often times when you can be ruined. And then you're like, I'm going to write a book about edge punk and I'm going to sell edge punk gear and edgypunk's actually truly a way of life. Take my course and I'll show you how to be an edgy punk. And luckily Martin I remember Martin uh Weller saying to someone, you know, Jim could have gone a lot of other ways with edgypunk and he left it alone and left it. And I think I appreciated him saying that because I don't know, you know, that was kind of like the intention is like I'm taking it too seriously. The thing doesn't mean anything anyone and to anyone anymore except maybe to people who want to turn into something it wasn't. So I just and it was never anything serious and yet people wanted to make it serious and I think that's where I kind of went sideways with it. So Edge of Punk was an interesting lesson in me to me about just like keep surround yourself with good people right you included and you know if you take yourself seriously on the web a less two seconds on the web rather than 15 minutes right so boom and it's gone and b you know then if you just do embrace that what people will potentially give you just become a product and I wasn't interested in that. I mean, that's that wasn't fun to me. So, yeah, DS 106 is a different story, though. DS 106 is totally different because while it might have sprung from some of the work happened early with Martha, Allan, yourself, all of us, like that kind of, you probably think so too, it took on a life of its own. Like I almost feel like I was happy to be a part of it, you know, but I never feel like I brought you DS 106, you know what I mean? Like what have you ever done for me? So that was easier. That was much better after Edgeup Punk. DS 106 was just a joy, you know? Because I always thought DS 106 took Edgup and just replaced it with letters and numbers that made no sense. And then it was good because then people could do it like people like John Johnston in Scotland and people in like you know uh Spain, Julian in Spain and Peter Rowan in Australia. It just opened up the globe with cool people who I still keep in touch with and who I still think are awesome, you know. So yeah, that was a I changed nothing about DS16. That was a complete joy. Still is. Well, and it points to what is sometimes a trap for people, I think, in blogging. Like, because that's one of the things I'm kind of interested in, like, you know, making blogging fun instead of a trap for yourself. But also like this thing where like you write something with certain expectations of engagement and almost always at least for for me I'm I'm I often get wrong what's going to take off and somehow like be externally popular versus what I think should be. And this is is kind of around that. Like do you have any sleepers that you felt should have should have risen to the top but didn't? >> All of my long posts all of my long posts that no one reads and no one comments on I thought were good posts. I wrote one last year about um Fellini's amacord and fascism in Italy. And it was a pretty deep dive. I did research. I I read it to my son cuz he was at that point interested and he's like that's so good dad that's so good and you know I was like this is awesome. No one commented and we joke about that. I'm like see when you do good stuff on the internet no one cares. But uh no, I mean that's I agree with you. Like I always it's also a joy too to write something that you didn't even care about and throw out there and then people love it then it's like oh that's great you know but the unknowableness of it is cool right like not that's what still makes me joyful like maybe this is the the you know Gardner Campbell used to say it and I liked it the way he said it like maybe this is like the letter to that unmet friend which comes from the year of living dangerously by Peter Weir I loved when he would say that because that's like kind of what you're trying to do, right? You're trying to connect with people. It's how we met. You're trying to kind of like, you know, go out there and it's a sign of that's the whole faith hope part, right? It's a sign of hope when you put out a post and you're not expecting much back. But if you get something back and I think you do that with your tech posts all the time because you want to help people like that's like your mantra and I think when you put something out there even if you don't get a comment or no one gives you the do love you resp you deserve um there are people who are always using it and getting something from it and I think you've kind of developed your own blogging in that direction in interesting ways I Yeah. And I would just only change the if you don't win. >> My comment to post ratio is considerably. you do kind of your your your new take is kind of like I'm writing this as little as possible like >> here. >> Um well, let's let's let's dive a little more deeply into your uh blogging style because I think this is a good one. This is from uh Lena Rings in 2010. Okay. And she writes a number of interesting things. um including this excerpt. Finally, Jim commits the ultimate sin in rational empirical scholarly research, but does exactly what the people promoting skilled reflection do. He personalizes the ideas to his own life, emotions, and experiences. He is somehow wonderfully stuck in the 60s where he is probably too young to have ever lived. For he seems to want what he teaches to be not just implicitly but explicitly relevant to the student producers's own life experiences. In his own modeling, he expresses subjectivity and explains how he integrates the content with his own experience. Amazing. Becomes completely depressing. when I was growing up and even and that's my story and I'm sticking to it uh are are phrases she pulls out and it's a whole rhetorical analysis of how you talk I'd say live and how you blog which I think are pretty parallel. So what what what do you think about that? Have you kept up that same style? >> What did she say again? I don't understand it. What? Just give me like the cliff's notes. Like, is it good? Is it a good thing? No, >> she loves >> I think she's great. >> I I think Yeah, but she is saying that you kind of like the whole the whole post is pretty long, but she goes into kind of like how you like keep smashing together kind of >> academia and gym groom wackiness in an ongoing way. >> Um, is that how you think about it? It's funny and I think a lot of people who blogged and come up with blogging like when we did >> there was blogging was the alternative. you had a funny question that you were going to ask me about for fours and religion and God and stuff like that and I had an answer for that and my answer was like I'm part of the Protestant revolution right and whereas academia were the cathol Catholics and you had to have this regalia and all this gold for me the blogging was the protestant revolution where you could come and have your own relationship to writing to God if you will and kind of do that and I really love that because I was a bad academic and I wasn't very good at following the rules or even like getting an advisor as my PhD and I [ __ ] all that up. So blogging was my second chance at that. And uh >> so to her point probably I probably had a bit of an axe to grind about, you know, being not so academic but yet being smart or proving I was somewhat smart, you know. So, you know, part of that was probably that, but I think all of it is like I thought the blog was freedom. So, maybe that's where I didn't feel like it was a drag. I knew what it was like to write papers and to have a write a dissertation and all that and that's a [ __ ] drag. So, the idea of being able to write a blog post and people read it actually and even comment and are happy that you wrote it. Yeah, that was that was like a mecca for me in 2005 2006. Um, and so yeah, so it definitely she's right about some of that. I mean, she's overly kind about the characterization of me, but I had a lot more of a persona then than I do now, I think. Right. I think I've kind of grown into just small obsessions more than persona. And I think that's been a good thing for me rather than having to be the baba, right? I could just be interested in something, right? >> Whether or not people are. And Eric, I completely understand why you're not into AI madness. I do. Trust me. Well, and I mean like that's I I think a a sign of a confident blogger is being okay with with kind of uneven audience resp. >> Um >> so we will we will hit the the numerology question. All right. So since since we are approaching 4,000 posts, right? 4,000 I am told signifies provision, completeness, universality stemming from biblical accounts like Jesus feeding 4,000 people. Um four representing earth thousand vast quantity divine abundance for all Jews and Gentiles. I assume some other people. Who knows? >> Um, and you also go by the nickname the Reverend. Would you consider your blog >> a holy screed? >> I do. Yeah. I I think early on it was a holy screed against to your point like a Protestant rebellion against for just being able to write freely and I I think it was that and now it's become more like a like a I don't know Franciscan diary out in Italy away from the American madness where I write and I know I'm thousands of miles away from my friends and family in some ways but it's still my postcard. right to that world. So, in different ways, but I think the complete list number, that whole idea like 4,000 seems like a big deal to me only in that I remember what it was like to get to a,000, right? And then I remember three years ago what it was like to get to 3,400 and then I for some reason 3,400 was a big number for me. And then Michael Branson Smith was like, I'm going to make the Atari 3400, but call it the Bava 3400. and he had this whole image of a system that was but the point really is that like you track time numbers track time right and that's what this is really about is tracking time on the blog and this stupid event that I'm creating with the Bava 4000 and that you've been so cool to just join in on is I'm trying to make a sense of eventness to make it seem important to me because I like it and I want it to mean something you know what I mean and I think I'm trying to remember like this does mean something like it has given me a lot and it has been great and maybe I won't get dementia because I wrote so much or maybe I'll get it sooner. I don't know but like like I don't know. I think there is always something religious in uh some of our approaches to the things we believe in. Now that's different religion. People try it on in different ways and maybe there are truly atheists out there. I don't know. But like I think there is a sense of belief and it goes back to that faith in the seed idea, right? Like I believe in ideas and I believe in connecting with people and so I think the blog for that still remains important as does mastadon or all these other places like one doesn't preclude the other. For me it's it's not that I just feel like you know it's almost like that homestead blog is really the homestead you know for me it's the farm. It's where I raised the pigs. Well, you you made me think about it kind of in a different way there, too. Like the idea of reflection as like a like look at what's happened and be happy that it happened. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? There there is there is some some positivity in a in a retrospective view like that that I think can can be uh nice. >> Exactly. and and play it fun like everything like Edge of Punk and DS 106 because really you can't take your tail too seriously and I think that's a lesson I've learned from blogging and all that and that's it's a good one. Like I like to have fun. Like I like [ __ ] that's fun, right? We have enough terror in our life and horror. Like if you can carve out a little space for fun, you're like so ahead of the game it's not even funny. Well, we've got a nice segue too from this to because I know that you mentioned that you're writing from afar now, >> right? So, how has becoming a kept man, living a life of leisure in the European countryside impacted your blog? >> Good question. And I I probably should do a deep dive because I think about I think a lot all these things you're asking. I think about them. I think my blogging changed significantly um in 2015 when I moved here because that was the year like Reclaim was it was do or die, right? Tim and I were both didn't have a day job anymore. So, I was writing a lot about Reclaim and thinking a lot about Reclaim. So, I think it was in in line with my obsession blogging, right? Like I would get into something and obsess on it for a good couple of years. But the difference was I didn't blog in a community like I had at MW and that we would all be there together. You knew the setup. We had a bullpen. I would joke with them when I was blogging. Like I would do it as part of my day job. Like it was just like what I did when I went to work. I was in a lot more isolation with my blog when I moved to Italy and I didn't have a community here in the same way. Still don't. So I depended a lot more on other people but so few people were blogging that like it was a little bit more lonely, right? Like it was a little bit more of like that was where I think the auto the auto what would you call it? like just the fact that it had been so automatic for maybe 15 years up until then or 10 years it that it just I just kept doing it not thinking about whether people are reading not worrying and I think that got me through some times where and Twitter was still alive then so Twitter was still kind of fun and that was a good place to connect. Um but the blog it just became I would often think of like you Darcy uh Stephen um Allen of course and Allan was the one who would keep blo commenting I mean he's not only a great blogger he's just an amazing commenter like he has both which I don't have to that degree and I deeply respect that um he's the whole package so like I would just think about those people and read those blogs and Tony Hurst who I connect with when I moved here was a great one, although I don't always understand what he writes about. I do love just how much he writes. So, yeah, I mean, there was always connections, but blogging can be a lonely affair and it's a long distance affair, too. Like, you know, it's like the long-distance runner. I talk about it like that a lot. Like this idea of you just you get on the road and you start running and then hopefully when you're done, you know, you can run that marathon. And I think I've blogged enough that I was like, "Oh, 26 posts in how many posts?" Some god-awful amount of posts in 10 days. And like I'm just about done. Like and it was nothing. And there weren't even like [ __ ] posts. Like a lot of them were like real posts. So I feel like I'm in some of the best blogging shape of my life. In terms of other stuff, forget it. Well, and I think what you're talking about is almost like muscle memory, right? And habit and kind of like also like not tensing up and thinking too hard about anything. You just >> you know, >> no one's I mean, you and I both know like people might even like people who comment probably didn't even read the post. >> Like they're just like, "Good job, Jim. Like, we're there for you." And I I'm all here for that. like it should never be work for them, you know what I mean? Because even if it is a little work for me. So >> yeah, I I don't take it that seriously at all. And the post I put out, you know, as soon as it's out, I forget. And then I see it again, I'm like, who wrote that? So there's that weird thing coming on now 20 years. You look back and you're like, who wrote that post? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. and happens to me all the time like what I don't even remember that project let alone how how that one thing happened. >> Yeah. Anyway, that's fun. >> Um so I'm going to ask you one anardoir uh style question of the several that I have because we're getting near the end and then we'll we'll have you kind of wrap things up here. All right. So this is >> I'm ready. Are you ready for this? >> All right. You've chronicled your intense devotion to the arcade game Centipede and video game history in general, but tell us, did you really believe that the 12in Mega Hulk faction action figure that reminded you of Bruce Lee was the inspiration you needed to try and master a deceptively simple Dragon's Layer laser disc gameplay? Did you finally get the time? >> I did. So interesting thing about Dragon's Lair, it's a game ahead of its time. It's beautiful graphics, right? The guy who did that also did Bluth, his name is. He also did like the Disney Disney um Robin Hood. Just he's he's an amazing animator and me and Tommy really dig on him right now. But that game, which is a laser disc game, is a horrible video game. And people are like, "Why won't you buy it?" And I'm like because it's such terrible gameplay because you had to kind of like almost like you were clicking a laser disc button and you had to click the button at the right time to go in the right place and it just didn't work. It wasn't a fluid game. Take that game though and play it on the iPad and it is amazing. It is like a a a brilliant game. So, we own that and Space Ace for the for the um iPad, but I would never buy and people think, you know, as a collector, it's weird I should say this, and I love Laser Discs, but I would never buy a Dragon's Lair Space Ace game because I think they're shitty games. More than you ever want to know about that, I'm sure. But I again, I thought about this. I think. Yeah. Well, here we are with roughly five minutes to spare. Um, I can ask you some random questions or do you want to kind of give advice as a uh early blogging pioneer uh to baby bloggers out there or those who continue to struggle? We've done it throughout this conversation, but I don't know if you have any >> No sage advice here. >> I don't. No, not really. I like it. I think if you find something you like, you should do it, right? And have fun with it. And that's been the the blogging for me. And I thought like it would be funny to to do 4,000 posts. That's 200 posts a year over 20 years, which I love the symmetry of that, right? And then stop, right? And all I could think of after 4,000 is, wow, what would a good 4,0001 post be to kind of play with? Like that's just where my mind goes, right? It's like what would or maybe that will give me time to free up to write more about AI madness because I have a lot to catch up because I've been doing this you know um project on the diarama and I've been doing this and you know Stephen said something nice to me recently and he was like you know I hate your genre stuff that you do on horror movies because I'm not a fan but I appreciate your dedication to kind of like doing the art and do it and I think that's it. I think that's good advice for anyone like if you have the chance and I'm learning this from my son in particular right now. You know, he has the chance and he's taken the time to do the art and to make the things that make him happy. And if you get that chance and it's not always easy, that's for sure. But if you get the chance, do it, you know? Nava has been that for me, you know, it's been getting that chance and doing it. And so I appreciate it and I love it. You know, I'm like, I love this whole stupid [ __ ] thing, Baba 4000, because it's like it is a thing and we all been a part of it and done it in our own way and so why not like have some fun with it and celebrate it in some silly way because it's going to be gone, right? Like you said, we're all going to die at some point. I'm taking that's the other thing I have in the back of my head. Yeah, I don't know how blogs will be seen, but it's always interesting to me from like a history perspective is like you'll have these like trappers logs and it's just like snowed caught a beaver, you know, and and like reading it today, it's like that's amazing. How cool to see that quadruple greatgrandfather Eddie caught a beaver today, ate it. Um, you know, I kind of see like some aspects of the blog maybe being that for people that, you know, you say like your kids are reading now, which is super cool, but also like in the future, >> whether it's on archive.org bored or not or if like you know like >> some of this is is kind of interesting just to think about wild legacies and and like who will ever care. I do too. And I think the idea of turning blogging inside out, like >> when I I talked about that time when, you know, Tim's like at the laboratory and the Baba studio, which luckily I'm lucky to have and be able to do, don't get me wrong. Not everyone go out and rent a space and, you know, I mean, I'm not I'm not suggesting that, >> but like having the blog now, like I have people come into the space regularly and it is kind of like my blog. Like it has not that much rhyme or reason. There's all these different media effects around it, but the thing that faces the window is what brings everyone in. And it's usually a diarama or something. And they come in and we talk and they're usually like, "What a cool thing. Do you sell anything?" "No, why not?" And then I talk about why I don't. And like and they're like, "But why are you doing this here?" And I'm like, "Well, because my wife's from here." And they're like, "Where are you from?" And then there's like a connection there, right? And I'm not asking for anything from them, >> but yet there is they're interested obviously in culture and hence that's a common place. And so it's interesting to take a storefront and reimagine it as not a space of transactional logic. And that's what the blog has been like. I'm not going on there asking Tom, come on, give me something, feed me, I want something. Nor are you doing that to me. But we'd had like like instances in the same time around the same period and hence it kind of brought us into each other's orbit right and I think I'm trying to play with that space physically and that's been a lot of fun I have to say and it has feed it's fed the blog too you see like I have all sorts of stuff to bring back to the virtual and then the other piece and I'm I could talk forever you know that the other piece here is I have a guy who was doing some work for me who helped me set up the haunted arcade which is we created this place into a haunted arcade and had all this stuff and he's an artist and he's like a video artist and he's like he did the video of the space he's like you have to get on Instagram. I was like I'm not getting on Instagram. He's like you have to be on Instagram. No one's going to know where you are and what you're doing. And I'm like I understand that. I'm not I definitely get how social media kind of works, but I don't want to be there, right? And >> it's not because I hate Instagram. I'm not like >> fickle about that stuff, but >> I want this place to be like almost located. It almost would lose a some of its value for me if it just became a meme on the internet. You know what I mean? It would kind of be like if this shining thing was just people said, "Yeah, like cool. Yeah, like cool. I want some kid to walk past it and be like, "What the hell is that?" And then remember it right when they're 20 and be like, "Why did that guy set up a store and build diaramas in his window? And what did he sell again?" That's what I want them to remember. And you'll never get that context on the internet in the same way. So maybe you will, but I don't have the will to do it. But so anyway, that's that's what you should do if you want advice from me. Set up a storefront and blog it. >> I think that's a beautiful way to end this at exactly 101, which I'm sure means something in. >> You're the best, Tom. Thank you, man. Rock, not rock.