15 Lessons From 800 Episodes - Alex Hormozi, Ryan Holiday & Mark Manson
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In this milestone 800th episode, Alex Hormozi synthesizes lessons from a decade of podcasting and personal reflection into four core themes: productivity debt, the curse of competence, low self-esteem in high achievers, and the dangers of deferred happiness. He introduces "productivity debt," a concept coined by Oliver Burkeman to describe the feeling that one must constantly claw back toward an impossible standard of output due to endless demands and social media noise. Hormozi argues this imaginary debt is unpayable; instead of striving for zero balance, listeners should adopt a "done list" mentality where any completed task serves as proof against doing nothing at all. This shift allows individuals to stop justifying their existence through constant busyness and find genuine peace in the midst of chaos without needing to eliminate every distraction first. The discussion then moves to the psychological burden faced by competent people, termed "the curse of competence." Drawing on Barry Schwartz's paradox of choice and Adam Mastroianni's metaphor of being stuck on a sinking Titanic while everyone cheers for one's privilege, Hormozi explains how having too many options can lead to paralysis rather than liberation. While it is tempting to envy the success of others, he references Neil Strauss's book *The Power of Low Self-Esteem* to suggest that great achievers often harbor deep insecurities and a harsh internal critic despite their external validation. Furthermore, Hormozi critiques "deferred happiness syndrome," noting how people sacrifice present joy for future milestones like financial freedom or personal mastery. He proposes Sam Harris's strategy of stringing together moments of gratitude—such as using Post-it notes to pause and appreciate the present—as an antidote to this malignant cycle of striving. Hormozi also addresses modern distractions, specifically labeling "culture wars" debates as a repetitive six-stage "shiny object cycle." He illustrates how trivial topics, ranging from woke news stories about cats suffering discrimination to arguments over trans flags with new additions each year, are designed by algorithms and media outlets to generate engagement rather than meaning. These cycles trap intelligent people in endless loops of righteous indignation that distract them from pressing global issues like fentanyl epidemics or youth suicide rates. Additionally, he highlights the toxicity of "shadow sentences"—passive-aggressive communication where people say one thing but mean another—arguing that this indirectness breeds resentment and destroys relationships. He advocates for radical directness, suggesting that if someone reacts poorly to honest feedback, the fault lies with their inability to handle truth rather than the speaker's honesty. Finally, Hormozi offers a framework for reframing stress and problems as essential features of life rather than bugs or curses. Citing research on obesity surpassing hunger as a global health threat and noting that humans spend more time staring at screens than sleeping, he underscores the urgent need to prioritize well-being over mere accumulation. He outlines four key insights: first, problems are inevitable; second, worrying about them is futile because they will likely not matter in three months; third, growth occurs only at the edges of discomfort through antifragility; and fourth, one should stop taking life too seriously given its inherent absurdity and brevity. By recognizing that no one remembers us after a few generations and that learning comes from overcoming challenges, he encourages listeners to embrace their current struggles as gifts for future selves while enjoying the ride between two eternities of nothingness.
Read the full video transcript
Hello everybody welcome back to the show
it is the 800th episode of Modern wisdom
and as is tradition I'm going to go
through some of the best lessons that
I've learned over the last 100 episodes
some of it is stuff from my newsletter
some of it things that I've learned from
guests on the show and other bits are
just random insights I've encountered in
life so yeah let's get into it the first
one productivity debt I adore this idea
so when Matthew hussy came on the show
he has this quote from his book love
life where he's talking about how he is
a internal Tyrant he says I struggle to
believe I'm worthy of moments of joy and
peace without first putting myself
through a brutal schedule monitoring my
productivity levels down to the minute
perhaps some people apply this earn your
cookie mindset in ways that lead to
healthy Achievements not me mine is a
mutation whereby joy and self-compassion
are regularly outlawed by an internal
Tyrant who decides when I've been
flogged enough for one day just when I'm
about to collapse a voice inside says
okay give him half an hour of Peace
before bed but make sure he knows we'll
start again bright and early in the
morning and this Insight hurts my soul
largely because I see it in myself and
Oliver burkman who wrote 4,000 weeks has
a name for this bottomless pit of
self-imposed expected efficiency
productivity debt he says that many
people by which he meant him seem to
feel as if they start each day off in
the morning with a kind of productivity
debt which they must struggle to pay off
throughout the day in hopes of reaching
a zero balance by the time the evening
comes around he said that few things
felt more basic to his experience of
adulthood than this vague sense that
he's falling behind and need to claw his
way back up to some minimum standard of
output it's as if he needs to justify
his existence by staying on top of
things in order to Stave off some IL
defined catastrophe that might otherwise
come crashing down upon his head which
is why he is such an enthusiastic
proponent of keeping a done list which
starts empty first thing in the morning
and then you gradually fill it with
whatever you accomplish throughout the
day and his argument is that each entry
is a cheering reminder that you could
have after all spent the day doing
nothing constructive yet look at what
you did instead and if you're in a
serious psychological rout he says you
can just lower the bar for what gets to
count as an accomplishment nobody ever
needed to know that you added brush
teeth or made coffee to your D list but
a Dun list isn't just a way to feel
better about yourself you need to give
up the impossible quest to pay off your
productivity debt and instead start
thinking about each day as an
opportunity to move a small but
meaningful set of items over to your
done list and you'll find that you make
better choices about what to focus on
and because you'll actually make more
progress on them by wasting less time
and energy being distracted by the
stress about all of the other stuff that
you're unavoidably neglecting so paying
off this imaginary productivity debt
completely in other words working so
hard and so efficiently that you no
longer feel like you're falling behind
is literally impossible it's not just
grueling and unpleasant and in the
modern world of work there is no limit
to the number of emails you might
receive and the demands that your boss
might make and the Ambitions that you
might have for your career so there's no
reason to believe that you'll ever get
to the end of them meanwhile modern
media especially social media is a giant
machine for exposing you to a bottomless
Newsfeed of far more suffering than St
Francis of AI himself was ever asked to
care about so whenever Oliver manages to
remember that this is just the way
things are that the cosmic debt that he
seems to imagine that he has to pay off
is in fact inherently impossible to pay
off he finds that he is far better able
to relax in the midst of having too much
to do as opposed to making relaxation
dependent on first getting on top of it
all which he never will and crucially he
thinks he's better placed to actually do
things the productive and good citizen
things that were the focus of all of
this angst in the first place look there
they are on the done list not many of
them perhaps at least by comparison to
the immeasurable Galaxy of things that
need doing still there are generally
quite a few more than zero items there
by the time that 6 p.m rolls around and
then I think he said at 6 p.m. he
usually mixes a gin and tonic uh but
that tends to not get added to the list
generally this idea of productivity debt
I think puts a name on a sensation that
lots of us feel this
odd requirement to sort of whip
ourselves into submission this odd sense
that we are falling behind he has this
great term what is it he says earlier on
he talks about this this vague sense
that you are falling behind and it's
just this sort of ambient thing he needs
to justify his existence by staying on
top of things this vague sense he's
falling behind and need to claw my way
back up to some minimum standard of
output and you know this is kind of I
guess the Dark Side of being interested
in productivity and deficiency that you
set yourself this unbelievable bar and
you're probably excited by lots of
different things you're probably good at
lots of different things so the options
that you have in front of you are high
and you hold yourself to high standards
and you want to make an impact on the
world and you want to maximize your
brief sliver of time whilst you're
existing in this The Two eternities Of
Darkness here you are this is your time
I'm going to get the most out of it and
what that ends up doing is this sort of
permanent imbalance between the things
you want to do and the things that you
end up doing which actually means that
even the things you do do have this odd
sort of tarnished sense to them I I
certainly know this like unbelievably
well myself you know doing a a live show
and and the third show that I've ever
done and it's London and it's sold out
on a Saturday night at Leicester Square
theater or wherever we were last year
and everything goes well and it's you
know it's still early on in my career
and yet when I finish up I'll look back
and focus on those two little sections
that I didn't quite get right and forget
the 1 hour and 58 minutes of pretty much
perfect exactly what I wanted and
expected and hope to get out of it but
I'll just focus on those other two
things and this sort of negativity bias
that we have plus this sense that we
should always be doing more always be
working harder you know if you've ever
gone through a period of really intense
work and all that you think about is God
I just wish I could have you know one
weekend at home I just don't want to be
traveling again or I don't want to be
working again or you know I don't want
to have to get up on I just wish I could
have one lie in and then after two lions
you now think really need to get back on
that grind I'm feeling a little bit lzy
and you're like hang on a second you
just said only 48 hours ago that you
couldn't wait to get a little bit of a
break uh yeah for the sort of type a
go-getter people I think this is a like
just an ambient demon that sits on
everybody's shoulder and Matthew's idea
of this internal Tyrant that's
constantly whipping him I think is is
pretty Illuminating so yeah that's one
of my favorites productivity debt is
just so fundamental to how lots of
people see the world all right next next
one the curse of competence this is
something I've been thinking about for a
little while you probably are pretty
competent if you're listening to this
podcast you can do things and you're
prepared to try new stuff and when you
try new stuff you don't suck that much
and you seem to probably make progress
more quickly than most people and this
is the curse of competence because your
options for Life direction are less
constrained by your abilities and more
more constrained by your choices and
this sounds like a blessing and indeed
it probably is better than the
alternative but it's a unique category
of problem which occurs while people
tell you how fortunate you are to deal
with it so Barry Schwarz in the Paradox
of choice talks about the process of
buying jeans 60 years ago and you go to
the jeans store and there is one type
one color one cut you find your waist
size you pay and you walk out now you
may have wanted a slightly different
style of jeans or length or color or
whatever but you had no choice other
than what was given to you so your total
utility from the jeans may not be
maximized but your satisfaction with the
decision is pretty high knowing that you
got the best that you could given the
circumstances and if you compare that to
today and you go to the jean store and
look around do you want skinny or boot
cut straight leg cropped do you want
ripped blue gray acid wash with contrast
stitching or without the options are
endless and hooray this means that you
can finally select the exact pair of
genes that you were looking for but it
also means that any suboptimal decision
is entirely your fault if you were
unhappy with your jeans in 1960 it's the
fault of the crappy jean store if you're
unhappy with your jeans in
2024 it's the fault of your research
previously your experience was largely
out of your hands and limited by the
world today it's only limited by your
choices and this is how a constraint of
options makes the decision-making
process easier and the curse of
competence plays into this as well so if
you're only good at one category of
things you sure might be unhappy that
you can't do something else and that
indeed is a rubbish situation but the
constraint helps to narrow your choices
down on the other hand if you're good at
lots of things there are many paths open
to you which is liberating but can also
cause you to be scared and confused and
Frozen in place and we could call this a
Titanic problem which is an issue
everyone says you're in such a
privileged position to deal with Adam
mastriani says this is an extra special
type of tragedy a tragedy that unfolds
while everyone cheers like being on the
Titanic after the iceberg hits water up
to your chin with everybody telling you
that you're so lucky to be on the
greatest steam ship of all time and the
Titanic is indeed so huge and wonderful
that you can't help but agree but you're
also feeling a bit cold and wet at the
moment and you're not sure why having
lots of
competencies that you could follow in
your life is exciting but it's also
terrifying and paralyzing too plus you
have the added challenge of feeling
guilty for seeming ungratefulness even
though the world is at your feet so it's
this very odd sort of concatenation of
of paralysis of analysis lots of Life
Choices lots of different directions
that you could go in with things this
sort of Shame and guilt around who am I
to complain when there's ostensibly
nothing wrong I have all of these
different options should I not feel
grateful for this and yet I can't help
but feel like I don't know the the
decision making having to choose what it
is that I'm going to do just feels
exhausting to me and and and tiring and
um I I think that this is a challenge
that people who are uh competent face
and it's with the Titanic problem thing
it is exactly the sort of problem no one
is ever going to give you sympathy for
oh poor talented person look at how many
different directions you could go in
life you could go into sales or you
could go into marketing or you could go
into the family business or you could do
whatever maybe you want to be a mom or a
dad maybe you want to be a teacher you'd
be great to do all of these different
options in front of you no one is going
to ever give sympathy to the person who
has too many choices and yet the felt
experience of that person is always
going to be painful a lot of the time so
constraining down your choices uh
picking the thing that you're going to
do periodizing it um is a good solution
uh you know instead of saying I have all
of these roads open in front of me and
this one that I choose has to be the
right one if you set yourself a
maximizing decision criteria as opposed
to a satisficing one good enough or
perfect um if you get to good enough and
say well I'm going to do this but it's
probably a reversible decision you know
maybe I can try X project for 90 days or
a year or something like that and if I
don't like it then I can pivot into
something else and here's the brilliant
thing if you are competent there are
other things that you can pivot out of
so I think changing from a maximizing
lifelong commitment to a satisficing
experimental commitment is is probably a
good reframe look just give it a crack
give the thing that you're thinking
about a try and if it doesn't work you
can pivot out of it but yeah the curse
of competence something pretty important
I think um I learned this word as well
actually William Costello uh mentioned
it to me when I sent him the Oliver
burkeman episode a couple of weeks ago
and he said um how sanguin he found
Oliver and I'd seen this word written
down I can pronounce it but I had no
idea what it meant so sanguin means
optimistic or positive especially in
apparently bad or difficult situations
he is sanguin about prospects for the
global economy the committee takes a
more sanguin view uh in medieval science
and medicine of of or having the
Constitution associated with the
predominance of blood among the bodily
humors supposedly marked a Rudy
complexion and an optimistic disposition
so like everybody that's flid or Ruddy
in the UK that gets a of being gam is
actually just having a optimistic
disposition um but yeah sanguin I really
love that as a word and what it
describes I think is Oliver burkeman and
aland de boton's approach this sort of
very
self-facing things are difficult and I
am flawed and life is hard and I
probably suck quite a lot um but here is
a a hopeful view of how I can get past
it uh taking into account all of my
flaws and uh being sanguin just that
kind of joviality in the face of life's
challenges is um is cool and I'm finding
myself gravitating more toward people
who create content like that I think it
really sees The Human Condition in a an
interesting way so just um I don't know
little dictionary moment for you there
all right next one this is the power of
low self-esteem in September 1893
Churchill was admitted on his third
attempt to the Sandhurst Military
College he wrote to his father I was so
glad to be able to send you the good
news on Thursday his father a former
Chancellor of the ex- cheer and leader
of the House of Commons wrote back a
week later you should be ashamed of your
slovenly happy go-lucky Haram scarum
style of work never have I received
really any good report from your conduct
from any Headmaster or tutor always
behind incessant complaints and a total
want of application to your work you
have failed to get into the 60th rifles
the finest regiment in the Army you have
imposed on me some extra charge of £200
a year do not think that I'm going to
take the trouble of writing you long
letters after every failure you commit
and undergo I no longer attach the
slightest weight to anything you may say
if you cannot prevent yourself from
leading the idle useless unprofitable
life you have had during your school
days you will become a mere social wasil
one of the hundreds of public school
failures and you will degenerate into a
Shabby unhappy and futile existence you
will have to bear all the blame for such
misfortunes your mother sends her
love Churchill was 19 when he sent
that and that story hurts to read it
hurts me to read because I don't know
the inner texture of Churchill's mind
but I would bet that even after
defeating Nazi Germany and winning World
War II he probably still didn't feel
good enough you know vday whenever it
was June 30th 1945 or something
uh how long did that sense of validation
and enoughness
linger with Churchill
having the greatest
threat that had been faced for a very
long time was just defeated two
days less than a day maybe like how
quickly did his mind get back to
castigating himself with that voice that
internal Tyrant that was his father and
you know it sort of begs the question
what is the point of success if there is
no satisfaction in the succeeding which
is why you should be very
aware of envying successful humans
because the price that you would need to
be pay to be the people that you admire
is often one that you wouldn't fot the
bill for and I spoke about this idea to
Neil Strauss the guy that wrote the game
and he wrote Rick rubin's book uh and
then he wrote the truth he's like seven
New York Times bestsellers I think and
he's writing a new book and he told me
the title of this new book
and I came up with a rule off the back
of his title which is you can tell how
good an idea is by how envious you are
of not coming up with it yourself when
you hear about it and he told me the
title of this book and I was like
[ __ ] that's so good why didn't I think
of that uh and the title of his new book
is the power of low self-esteem and it's
this same idea that I've been obsessed
with for a long time which is look at
the
very successful very impressive people
that you admire that lots of people look
up to uh that we all hold in high
esteem and look at what the internal
texture of their minds like look at what
the
daytoday existence
for them feels like and what does it
mean how how driven to do amazing great
Fantastical things are they and yet in
reality do you want to be that person
like do you want to pay the price that
you need to to be the people that you
admire and the power of low self-esteem
just what a awesome title and you can
tell how good an idea is by how envious
you are of not having come up with it
yourself uh so yeah next one this is uh
kind kind of cool I I mean terrifying
but also kind of cool um obesity is now
a greater threat to Global Health than
hunger a new Lancet study has found that
more than one in eight people in the
world are clinically obese the number
passed 1 billion for the first time and
it is now the leading form of
malnutrition with the number of people
considered underweight falling below 550
million being obese or underweight are
both forms of malnutrition because in
both cases people are not getting the
right nutrients and vitamins and the
types of calories that they need in
order to be healthy and experts
basically warned that children were
paying the price for in action on
obesity by global leaders with under 18s
accounting for 159 million of those who
are obese so nearly twice as many people
who are obese than are underweight and
it is the leading form of malnutrition
in the world and then I saw a study that
showed people spend 8 hours a day on
screens on average and 6 and 1 half
hours a day asleep on average so we are
now more more people are dealing with
malnutrition due to obesity than due to
being underweight and people spend more
time per day on their screens than they
do
asleep and that is a terrifying insight
about the state of Modern Health all
right next one this is this is cool I
like this one so
stop trading things that matter for ones
that don't this is from James Clear if
you already live a comfortable life then
choosing to make more money but live a
worse daily life is a bad trade and yet
we talk ourselves into it all the time
we take promotions that pay more but
swallow our free time we already have a
successful business but break ourselves
trying to make it even more successful
too much focus on wealth not enough a
focus on lifestyle and this is kind of
goes back to the hidden and observable
metrics thing that me and George ma talk
about whereby the more observable and
quantifiable uh and socially rewarded a
particular metric is the more uh Acclaim
that it gives you the more status that
it affords the more that you're going to
lean into that and you know quality of
Lifestyle you know like real what is the
day-to-day existence of you like how
happy are you how much spare time do you
have to do the things that you care
about that is very hard to flex and it's
very hard to measure as well but your
bank account it's pretty easy to measure
or the value of your house or the number
of bedrooms that it's got or the growth
of your company or your job title all of
these things super easy games and too
much focus on wealth not enough focus on
lifestyle is a just a nice reframe you
know it reminds us what are you trying
to accumulate this wealth for presumably
to afford yourself the kind of lifestyle
that you enjoy if you've already
achieved a kind of Lifestyle where you
are happy and you then worsen that in an
attempt to make more money the bar stool
is upside down you're sacrificing the
thing you want for the thing that's
supposed to get it uh and then Oliver
burkeman again says just because you're
at the top does not mean that you're
enjoying life the upper ranks of
corporate life are dominated by insecure
overachievers people who are driven by a
deep sense of inadequacy and are not
having any fun even though they've
supposed ly won this very competitive
race so again the people that you admire
the people at the top of the totem pole
do you really want that life are they
having fun or are they dominated by
insecure overachievers these
inadequate the productivity debt riddled
people is that really who you want uh
and then I kind of tied this to I I
molested a quote from um Nasim talb
where he says there's two types of
people in the world those who don't know
how to make money and those who don't
know when to stop and I changed this to
the Matthew principle of
self-improvement which is there are two
types of people in the world those who
don't know how to improve their lives
and those who don't know when to stop
and people who can improve their lives
will always struggle to be around people
who can't personal growth and
self-improvement is liberating and it's
fulfilling and it's exciting but it is
also a trap I think that convinces is
you that you're an unfinished article
who doesn't need to start enjoying life
yet and you can defer happiness until
you've reached a certain level of
development you say to yourself I'll
really start living when I finally
mastered this new meditation technique
or got to single digigit body fat or hit
six figures of your income or bought
that new house read a 100 bucks or grown
my channel to a million subscribers or
whatever and personal grows like you
have probably learned that a sacrifice
reward Dynamic is useful and it is
useful in the micro but it's malignant
in the macro we teach ourselves that we
need to do the tough things first so
that we can enjoy the fun things later
and if that's go to the gym before watch
some YouTube I think that's fine but if
it's complete an arbitrary amount of
Life improving before actually feel like
we can let ourselves enjoy life it's not
fine and the perennially difficult
balance of the personal growther is
between being and becoming it's between
feeling enough and wanting to be better
between a desire for more and a
satisfaction for what you already have
you want to leave it all out on the
field of play but you realize if you're
constantly driven by Desiring more it's
difficult to take time to enjoy the
process of playing the game and it's
tough I think
to be honest this is the personal growth
problem it's the most common question
that was asked at the live shows that I
did last year and the q&as how do I know
if I'm working hard enough I I I I feel
like I'm sacrificing the thing I want
which is happiness for the thing which
is supposed to get it which is success I
I I'm in this sort of lonely chapter
thing and I'm grinding away and I have
faith that this is going to be good for
me in the long term but I also don't
want to look back in 20 years and
realize that I basically just sacrificed
my youth and my verality and and all of
the time that I had
and it's anxiety inducing people don't
like it and it's tough it is very very
tough to basically let go of that desire
for more for maximizing um but one
solution that I quite like that I got
from Sam Harris last year was to
basically try and string together some
moments of peace and gratitude wherever
you can so just 30 seconds five times a
day really putting your mind where your
feet are so taking a deep breath
in and allowing your mind to focus on
the peripherals of your vision and think
about something that makes you happy
think about have how the things that you
have now are only once things that you
dreamed of having think about how insane
it would be if you from 5 years ago
could see this newly improved texture of
your mind or quality of your life and
Clarity of your thoughts and realize
that all of the striving and pushing and
grinding is indeed satisfying but if you
can't have fun now you're never going to
have fun you have to H start having fun
now you must begin enjoying life right
now because it is only ever going to be
right now you cannot continue to push
this thing down the road and the reason
that I like that idea from Sam I I think
originally called it a realistic path to
Enlightenment which are these moments of
Peace like mops um and the best way that
I found to do that I'm so bad at this by
the way which is why it's you know it's
why I think about it a lot um I have
Post-it notes around the house so
there's some next to the back door
there's some on the window in front of
where my sort of computer sits and uh it
just asks me little questions like are
you as present as you could be right now
uh what went well today and each time
that I see one of those Post-it notes I
try to take between sort of 15 and 30
seconds to have okay mind is resting
witha what I mean by that is I'm not
distracted I'm not ruminating about
yesterday I'm not thinking about
tomorrow I'm not concerned about what's
going to come I'm not fretting about
what's happened and I just think okay
like can I do just 15 seconds or 30
seconds and when I look back on the day
those
moments often appear in the top five uh
things that's happened like really just
taking a moment so that's weird that's
like gratitude at the end of the day for
being grateful during the day which is
very nice because that's a sort of self-
reinforcing cycle the more gratitude you
do the more easy it is to find and the
more grateful you are for your gratitude
so uh yeah maybe the Post-it note or
maybe you want to use reminders on your
phone to sort of um trigger you every
few hours or something throughout the
day but that seems to work for me and
this balance the the other thing as well
to say is that
this is a very hard thing to strike a
balance of so if you are someone that is
trying to improve yourself uh that has
big dreams and big goals and all the
rest of
it accepting this is the cost of doing
business this isn't some personal curse
that's been bestowed on you that you I'm
having to suffer with this thing God how
feeble and and and malignant and broken
am I how how uniquely cursed is my
particular setup no this is how
everybody feels this is every sing s Le
person that wants to do a lot that wants
to know that they should enjoy life but
also wants to leave it all out there on
the field of play this is just part of
the
course hopefully that makes it seem a
little bit easier to deal with I'll I'll
I'll tell you if I find out a proper
solution all right next one this is cool
and this one got retweeted by Elon so
it's got his seal of approval whatever
that
means the culture wars shiny object
cycle
number one some woke news story hits the
Press like cats suffer from racial
discrimination or screwing in light
bulbs need to be recognized as a valid
sexual Kink or something number two the
right-wing antibody response activates
look at how insane these people are Matt
Walsh quote tweets the article and calls
it obnoxious this is the problem with
our convenient decadent Tik Tock Society
number three this reaction causes the
story to gain infinitely more traction
than it ever would have done by signal
boosting the original Fringe scenario
into a much bigger event number four the
leftwing counter response activates
right Wingers lose their mind over one
woman with a particularly dark cat the
daily wire has a meltdown over an
insignificant troll article in times
when the original story is actually less
insane this can include a defense of the
original article too cats actually can
experience trauma minimizing this is the
real problem number five the right-wing
re reaction kicks into gear apparently
I'm insane for pushing back against cat
trauma see this is the problem if we
don't stand our ground these bluehead
idiots will take over the country number
six finally the touch grass meta
reactionaries steam in the real issue is
people talking about this issue look at
how silly this whole thing is it's time
to check out of the culture War we
should reconnect with what really
matters you should move onto the ranch
next Ry holiday and Hammer fence posts
into the ground for the rest of time and
this is something I noticed over and
over and over over again this culture
wars shiny object cycle this sort of
six-stage process and it can go begin
with the left uh signal boosting
something from the right and then it can
happen in Reverse but the cycle is banal
and it's excruciatingly repetitive so I
wondered why it sustains our attention
if basically the discussion follows the
same format every single time and the
reason I realized it my my idea is that
because each story is sprinkled with
just enough novelty to give it the
illusion that this is a new different
event which legitimates the push back so
you see this perfect example with the
Trans flag so each
year some new group gets added to the
trans flag and then that even though
it's basically the same exactly the same
uh culture was shiny object cycle it
still goes through the same six steps
but people will justify the critic M of
it by saying see we haven't seen this
trans flag with people who suffer from a
gluten intolerance included in it before
or someone with a club foot or or you
know a person who's afraid of flying and
it's like the 20th season of lost when
they're back on the island for the
seventh time and they need to escape but
this time it's winter and it just
sprinkles sufficient novelty so that
people are always oh well you know this
does seem to be legitimate I haven't
quite seen this one before and the shiny
object cycle does my head in it does my
head in largely because I get captured
by it and I see a bank rewriting a
classic fairy tale into a boss [ __ ]
remake and calling it fair Tales
princesses doing it for themselves and I
think this is [ __ ] dumb where's
Douglas Murray I need him to decimate
this idea with me and it's cathartic it
makes you feel good to tear this sort of
stupid idea down calling out insane
insights written by idiots is so
compelling and fun and easy to do that
it's like being a cocaine addict with
Pablo Escobar as a nextdoor neighbor
there is an unlimited Supply and the
memes of production are just worring at
maximum rpm and we're all caught in the
vortex and it was Douglas actually who
reminded me why I'm getting so
exasperated with this cycle because it's
a distraction it's a distraction from
our attention being focused on things
which are actually meaningful and not
just meaningful in a you will remember
this when you're dead way but in a
there's other issues to talk about that
a more important way like there's entire
American cities with fentanyl epidemics
and 80% of suicides of people aged 18 to
24 are men like I want to hear Jordan
Peterson talk about dealing with finding
meaning in a world stripped of all of
its guardrails and I want Nasim taleb to
be writing about applying complex maths
to simple life problems many of the
smartest people on the planet have had
their attention captured arguing about
whether men or men and women or women or
not over the last few years and even
more of the less Smart Ones as well and
all of our minds are held hostage by an
endless cycle of shiny objects that
aggravates both sides and it makes them
feel righteous for standing their ground
and I think this is a bottomless pit I
don't think that it's going to stop uh I
will almost certainly bring up stories
like this in the future but I'm really
going to try hard to focus more on stuff
that matters in 50 years not just in 50
minutes and I think probably so should
you it's it's so it's so funny because
in the moment all that you're doing is
tearing down the stupid idea and you
know it's it's hilarious and it's worthy
of communication and it's for people to
understand it's got hypocrisy and it's
got all the rest of it and yet when you
think about in retrospect how does it
make you feel how did talking about this
thing
and embroiling yourself getting agitated
even just the Mind share what else could
you have been thinking about and it
doesn't need to be stuff that would you
you're going to recall at the end of
your life because the bar is set so low
but I can promise you that the
particularly dark cat or the light bulb
screwing in sexual Kink is not going to
appear there and it's not going to
matter either so it's neither it's
neither entertaining nor reassuring nor
meaningful it's like none of the things
that you should care about so yeah
that's uh culture wars shiny object
cycle here's one thing though that
that's kind of I guess interesting about
it when you
see a format a structure that things
tend to move through if you can call it
out in advance it makes whenever it
happens again it makes it seem so much
more ridiculous because as you start to
see this thing unfold you realize oh
this isn't novel this is just the same
Playbook going through again and again
and I quite like uh Rob Henderson had
something called the hendersoni news
cycle which every single time the same
thing happens and when you see it you go
oh like I'm you it's like seeing code
instead of seeing Matrix You observe
what's going on and it just falls into
the existing format so hopefully I've
disabused you of uh at least some shiny
objects all right next one this is from
Mark Manson and it's why he hates being
around negative people being an [ __ ]
is a weak person's idea of strength
complaining is their connection never
let yourself be held back by other
people's fears people criticize what
they are afraid to do themselves because
bold action reminds them of their own
inaction if you're afraid to be
criticized
why do you care about the opinions of
those who are too timid to do it
themselves if you are the criticizer
does tearing someone who has the courage
you lack make you feel better and I love
that like you know I've been railing
against cynicism as hard as I can one of
the reasons that I really enjoy being
out here in the US the enthusiasm and
the excitability probably can get tiring
to some people but as of yet it hasn't
got tiring to me and I just like it I I
prefer it to the UK there was this
article George sent me who is it by not
by the founder of Spotify by the founder
of monzo the bank it's like a internet
Bank thing but it's it's huge it's
massive and the founder basically said
that the British culture is antithetical
to the American dream uh and I think
it's so true I think that it
is
so cutting and skeptical and
unsupportive of Big Dreams and people
doing something different and it's you
know this 2,000 year old aifi very
hierarchical in terms of social class
like just
stagnant culture and the other side of
it is it's the sixth biggest economy in
the world the UK is the sixth biggest
economy in the world but it's not the UK
it's London London is the sixth biggest
economy in the world and what we have in
the UK is a very poor country attached
to a very rich city and yeah if you're
in city of London or the right burs of
London maybe the quality of life and
everything is great as soon as you get
outside of that there's this YouTube
channel called bald and bankrupt that
George sent and it's so good this dude
has done every British guy he's been um
smuggled across the border uh from
Mexico into the US he's paid the what
are they called Jackal or something
coyotes uh The Smuggler people Smugglers
he's paid them he's been in war zones
he's been in Russia he got taken into
Jail uh and now his final boss of the
scariest place in the world is to go and
visit random Northern British Seaside
towns and it's just so sad you know you
see these high streets that are full of
boarded up Windows and and they're in
disrepair and [ __ ] everything is a
cla's accessories everything every
store's been turned into a cla's
accessories or a Subway or a tackle Bell
or something and that's if it's not
burned down or or boarded up um and it
just shows it really does show that you
have Rich City with a poor country
attached to it the wealth really of the
UK is not distributed evenly and I think
that that is reflected uh and
contributes to the way that people see
the country so anyway enough enough uh
sort of UK bashing not that it is like I
want I would love for the UK to to
improve but you know tried to mine my
way out from the inside and make changes
and that was a failure anyway next one
don't wait life is happening right now
and I've become pretty obsessed with the
belief that life's duties will one day
be out of the way that you can then
finally start doing the thing that you
want and live your life fully it's
similar to that idea that when you've
reached a particular level of personal
development you'll be able to but this
is even more ground floor than that this
is
more applicable to more people because
even if you're not doing personal growth
there is this sense that you're just
going to delay gratification and I think
that the idea that one day life's duties
will be out of the way and that you can
finally start doing the thing you want
and living your life fully is a myth I
think it's a lie and uh Marie Louise Von
Fran talks about the provisional life he
says there is a strange feeling that one
is not yet in real life life for the
time being one is doing this or that but
there is always the fantasy that
sometime in future the real thing will
come about it's similar to another idea
from gwind Bogle called deferred
happiness syndrome the common feeling
that your life has not begun that your
present reality is a mere Prelude to
some idilic future this idil is a mirage
that will fade as you approach revealing
that the Prelude you rushed through was
in fact the one to your death and it's
strange because I I regularly have this
sort of sense of for boing kind of in
guilt about time slipping away that I'm
not making enough of my days and
especially when I look back on a week
and I know I've done things and
dedicated myself to Pursuits and working
hard but I can't really fully recall how
I actually spent my time uh so I worry
that this is just a one week microcosm
how I look back on my entire life and as
time having passed but me not really
noticing it of existence occurring but
living not actually having got going and
then I think what's the answer like just
go full honic danbilzerian hyper Playboy
mode or or cast off all worldly
obligations and become a nomad traveling
the world or commit fully to the hardest
most worthwhile Pursuits that I can and
I don't know frankly but I'm pretty sure
that these right now are the golden
years I think that it's quite likely
when you look back that these times
right now will be the ones that you
cherish so you should approach them
with joy and care and presence the
requisite joy and care and presence and
and I think most importantly ignoring
the cynics and the buzzkills is this
idea from pachy McCormick he says the
greatest trick the devil ever played was
making you believe that the pessimists
are the good guys basically just don't
like don't wait like life is happening
right now it is there for you to enjoy
it is there for you to take delayed
gratification in the extreme just
results in no gratification the
sacrifice reward Dynamic that you are
used to is great in the micro and awful
in the macro it's not about waiting for
personal growth to be over it's not
about waiting for something life is not
happening in future it is happening
right now and this is something that I
need to permanently remind myself of on
a minute-by-minute
basis next one Shadow sentences so
imagine that you've been dating someone
and they haven't seen you for a week and
you ask what they're doing tonight and
they tell you that they're hanging out
with some of their friends what you want
to say is I really would like to see you
soon and it makes me worried when you
spend time with your friends but not
with me and that it's because you don't
actually want to be with me but what you
say instead is oh must be a very
important night to see a friends again
this week is it glad that you've got so
much spare time to catch up with them or
you're out for dinner and your partner
is on their phone a lot and what you
want to say is hey I'd love to speak and
I know that you're busy but it makes me
feel really good when you focus on me
during dinner can your phone stuff wait
until later but what you actually say is
that's a very important message to be
taking at this time it's going to be
really urgent for you to be answering it
over dinner or another way to think
about this is in terms of literal
language or implied language so people
speaking directly are literal speakers
people using Shadow sentence are implied
speakers so let's say that a friend
comes around to your house to catch up
they would like something to eat an
implied speaker using Shadow sentences
would say man I should have eaten more
today hoping that you pick up on the
Queue and offer food a literal speaker
would say hey man sorry to ask but I
didn't have time to eat before I arrived
have you got something I can snack on
and I'll get you next time so Shadows
sentences are not stating what you want
or need but instead saying a thing that
you hope will cause the other person to
realize what you want or need and then
getting upset if they don't so you kind
of gesture in the direction of the thing
that you want without asking for it
directly and I think it prevents you
from having to be open and vulnerable
when it feels like someone else has done
something slightly wrong it protects
protect you from rejection by not
actually asking for anything it's the
ultimate expression of if you loved me
you'd know what was wrong so Shadow
sentences are essentially speaking in
code hoping to be understood and they
cause unvocalized
unmet expectations which Drive
unnecessary tension and resentment in
relationships and there's that Neil
Strauss quote of unspoken expectations
are premeditated resentments and the
reason that shadow sentences are so
toxic are because they reduce both
party's desire to communicate openly and
honestly with vulnerability and feedback
which becomes a vicious cycle because if
one person says something passive
aggressive it's so hard to be the person
on the other side that decides to be
vulnerable and open it's why like I
actually think the number one turnoff
that anybody can do is being patronizing
like if you're being patronizing that is
the biggest erection killer in history
uh it's just so it hits this may just be
me but it hits on all of the
different like negative
snide
indirect exclusionary associations that
nobody wants to be a part of so yeah I
U I think that thankfully this sort
of Shadow sentence Dynamic is actually
quite easy to to Break by one person
just starting to speak openly and
carefully because when that person does
it it gives the other person licensed to
do the same thing but the reverse is
true too if one person is speaking
indirectly passive aggressively that
creates a dynamic where the other person
starts to mirror the way that they
behave so if you're in a relationship
that has a lot of Shadow sentences in it
or it has a lot of indirect
communication you need to take it upon
yourself to break that cycle it's like a
like a generational trauma being passed
down but it's not it's just sort of uh
durational tra durational trauma
temporal trauma that's being passed
along uh historically from the back end
of your relationship but it is quite
easy to change and maybe you can even
call it out you could say look uh I've
noticed that we're not really speaking
that directly anymore and and sometimes
I I feel really bad because I I say
things passive aggressively and I I hate
when I'm like that and I'm sure that you
know it's not the best version of me and
I want to be that person for you and
this can be a friend or a partner or
parent or [ __ ] whoever um I I really
want to be more direct and I I think
that if we both do that with care and
attention we need to be gentle uh and
it's going to be tough but if we did
that maybe our communication would be
better and maybe maybe things would seem
easier um the goal really should just be
to come out of the Shadows say what you
mean mean what you say and I I I think
that that would improve an awful lot of
communication I this is basically every
relationship I had like
every couple relationship I was in from
like 18 until 30 it was this it was just
Shadow sentences it was indirect
communication it was a fear of being
open and honest in case I was rejected
or they they did exactly the same thing
it was this sort of self-perpetuating
ever increasing escalating problem and
uh yeah
uh
glad glad that I'm at least slightly out
the other side of that um another thing
that I realized I had a conversation a
couple of weeks ago in Miami with a
friend about emotions and specifically
jealousy frustration and anger and it's
strange because those emotions hijack
even the most cerebral cognitively
sophisticated person it's highly
annoying uh you spend all of this time
trying to be a rational agentic beast
and then a thing happens that disrupts
your emotional state and you turn into a
petulant toddler and my friend explained
that when he finds himself getting
carried away by jealousy or frustration
or anger he asks a few questions so
first one that he asks is out of all of
the emotions you could have
chosen why did you choose that one you
have this huge library of emotions to
tap into why why did that one get
activated what is it about you your
desires your assumptions about the world
and your patterns that caused that
emotion to rise to the surface so
quickly and it's not strictly true that
you chose it your mind and body just
delivered it to you and you reacted but
I love this language and framing for
retaking agency over our emotions out of
all of the emotions you could have
chosen why did you choose that one and
second question he asks is and how's
that working out for
you what has been the outcome of that
emotion arising has it made your life
relationships quality of Mind better or
worse and I love this language again
because it creates distance between you
and your feelings plus it assumes that
you chose it giving you a sense of power
and then the third question that he asks
himself is do you want to be right or do
you want to be loved often when we feel
emotions like jealousy or frustration
and anger it's because we feel like a
boundary has been crossed that's
actually the reason that anger exists
evolutionarily at all before you have
laws you need a sense of right and wrong
internally so that if somebody crosses
that you can let them know with a
sufficiently unhappy respon response to
their transgression and this is this
Crossing of boundary is exactly why
these emotions arise we we feel like
someone should have known that we would
have felt this way if they did that
thing and they didn't so we need to get
them to realize their transgression and
in our less gracious moments we hope to
achieve this through mistreatment or
passive aggression or mean comments or
distancing and in our more gracious
moments in it's done through a calm and
honest and open explanation of why
something made us feel the way that it
did Without accusing the other person of
doing it on purpose I think it's best to
assume the best of others we we assume
that our friend or partner didn't mean
to make us upset that the impact that
their actions had on our psyche was done
through ignorance not negligence or
malice and maybe their behavior does
warrant the silent treatment maybe we
are righteous in our indignation maybe
they should have known better you may
even be in the right for reacting this
way but do you want to be right or do
you want to be loved because your
petulant in response to a situation you
wish hadn't happened is unlikely to
create more love and if your partner or
friend is incapable of hearing you
gently and frankly explaining why you
feel bad then you have a good indicator
that your interlocutor is a bigger
problem than just their behavior
increasingly I'm starting to see kind of
not not [ __ ] tests because [ __ ] tests
make it seem like you are um
purposefully being awkward or or or
doing something to test someone else's
uh um commitment to you in one form or
another not that but just that if it is
a natural outgrowth of you if it is you
calmly honestly and openly telling
something that you feel is the truth
saying it to a friend or a partner or a
[ __ ] Uber driver or whatever it
is and that person has a problem with it
the problem isn't you the problem is
them the only reason that the problem is
you is if you say something which wasn't
true what someone is basically getting
angry at if you say the truth in a
sufficiently calm manner at the right
time
is your discomfort is making me
uncomfortable it's like well but
I my discomfort is the first mover here
can we not treat that as opposed to you
simply telling me how you feel because
I'm upset and yeah I think if we were
all a bit more direct with our
communication uh we would end up with
much better friendships I think I think
that that would be a good a good way to
move forward this is kind of similar to
to something else that was asked at that
Miami weekend which was who is your best
friend so this guy was asked who his
best friend was and he said I'm not sure
that's a bit of a strange question after
age 12 so the question was asked
differently which was who do you have
the least amount of filter with when
you're around them and I think that is
such a good reframe who do you have the
least amount of filter with when you're
around them and another good question is
who can you sit in silence with and not
have to fill it even if there isn't a
single person that wins these are the
people that you should prioritize
spending your time with because we all
feel the compulsion to change ourselves
to fit in we adjust our behaviors and
our words and our nature and everything
in an attempt to be liked and validated
and accepted and the more people who
make it feel safe for you to truly be
yourself around them the more confidence
that you have to be that person every
day it's you become acclimatized to the
conditions that you're in the reason
that you go to the gym and do
Progressive overload is to make what
used to be heavy feel light and this is
kind of the same if you want you to be
you you need to be around people that
allow that you to come out if you want
you to be somebody else if you want you
to not be you and this can be both
positive and negative you know I'm
saying that you know we compromise
ourselves in order to fit in but that
can be be done in a positive skew also
you know if you're around a bunch of
people that smoke and you don't want to
smoke you're going to be more likely to
smoke but from a more you like
existential social standpoint which is
what this is talking about like who can
you sit in silence with and not feel
like you need to fill it who do you have
the least amount of filter around when
you're with
them those questions
just superbly encourage this sort of
frictionless version of you to flow out
and uh yeah I I think that that's a
finding people that you can sit in
silence with and you don't have filter
around is just what a great heuristic
for people that you should spend your
time with and this is a bit similar to a
quote that clay my friend showed me from
Timothy lery so I wasn't I knew who
Timothy liry was but I've never read any
of his stuff to be honest uh but he sent
me this which is [ __ ] fantastic this
is find the others admit it you aren't
like them you're not even close you may
occasionally dress yourself up as one of
them watch the same mindless television
shows as they do maybe even eat the same
fast food sometimes but it seems that
the more you try to fit in the more you
feel like an outsider watching the
normal people as they go about their
automatic existences for every time you
say Club passwords like have a nice day
and weather's awful today eh you yearn
inside to say forbidden things like tell
me something that makes you cry or what
do you think Deja Vu is for face it you
even want to talk to that girl in the
elevator but what if that girl in the
elevator and the balding man who walks
past your cubicle at work are thinking
the same thing who knows what you might
learn from taking a chance on a
conversation with a stranger everybody
carries a piece of the puzzle nobody
comes into your life by mere coincidence
trust your instincts do the unexpected
find the others I love that I think
that's so cool and I think it really
explains this odd asymmetry that we have
between our insight about our own mind
and what we see of everybody else's
Minds in the words and the actions that
they take so you have a million to one
maybe a billion to
one uh level of resolution insight about
you versus even the twin that you've
lived with your entire life even your
partner that you met when you were 16
and is your best friend and you going to
be together until you die there is no
one that you can even begin to Glimpse
as deeply as you can Glimpse yourself
and this causes us to believe that our
own internal state is unique it is
so idiosyncratic and and odd and
different that nobody else would be able
to understand and that the things that
we want to do are such huge outliers
that we're going to be mocked or
ostracized or it's going to be strange
or it's going to shock people or it's
going to be see abusive and maybe we go
to jail no no I think so many people
especially when it comes to finding the
others the people that want to have
interesting conversations that want to
connect over deep things that don't just
want to do the small talk uh that want
to go on an adventure you know that want
to say yes to new things I think that so
many more people want that than realize
it or so many more people want that than
you realize they they know it
but you don't and the difference is most
people want that kind of an experience
but few people are prepared to be the
first mover so just be the first mover
be the person that pushes it across the
line
and the world's not going to come
crashing down on you if you say it to
the wrong person but for the most part
you can kind of tell I think like who
the others are you can usually tell at
least my strike rate with it is is
improving
what do we got left Let's
do let's do one more but this is four in
one this is something that I came up
with ages ago about problems and stress
in life
and one of the most embarrassing things
about building up a body of work or or
spending any time really doing learning
in personal development is encountering
a
problem and realizing that you already
found a solution to that problem and
implemented it in your life previously
and that you've relapsed out the other
side like a like a secret drug addict
that's tumbled out of AA and back into
using um you know you you found the
solution for not using your phone in an
evening time and then you move house and
and the charg is in a different place
and you forgot to do it this way and
before you know it the same thing that
you thought you defeated six years ago
has come back around and um yeah
realizing that you have already learned
the answer to a problem that you're
dealing with right now is a special
really special kind of embarrassment um
but this is kind of a list of four
things uh that I feel like I should have
tattooed on the inside of my [ __ ]
eyelids all right here are some of the
most important things I've realized
about problems and stress number one
problems are a feature of life not a bug
there will never come a time when you
have no problems what did you think that
you would just wake up one day and
you're going to cease having problems
like completing a video game and
leveling up to a map where there's
nothing there that is never going to
happen your problems will change sure
but having problems is going nowhere
dealing with problems is the cost of
doing business as a human it's not a
personal curse on you number two
whatever negativity is assuming your
thoughts probably won't matter in 3
months time in 3 months time you won't
remember the corrosive texture of your
mind or the boring repetitive things
that you thought or maybe even what you
were worried about but all of that time
that you spent worrying will have still
passed so you are sacrificing your joy
and presence in the moment for a problem
which you won't even be able to recall
in the future so immortality is
literally the only life where such
flippancy with the days that you're
alive for is acceptable number three
learning comes from the edges change is
uncomfortable and it rarely happens
without a lot of stress and many of the
periods of radical and important change
in your life happened because of the
severe challenges that you faced would
you pay the price back then
for the insights and developments that
you have now if so have faith that
whatever stresses that you're facing
right now will lead to a greater version
of you in the
future the challenge that you're facing
is a gift and leaning into the
discomfort as if you invited it through
the door saying thank you for the
opportunity to learn and reflect because
it's making you better
antifragility is alive and well every
single time that we overcome these
obstacles number four stop taking things
so seriously no one is getting out of
this game alive literally in three
generations no one will even remember
your name and if that doesn't give you
Liberation to just drop your [ __ ]
problems and find some Joy I don't know
what will
life is inherently ridiculous and
guaranteed to end sooner or
later so you might as well enjoy the
ride and I think that
that series of insights problems are a
feature of life not a bug whatever
negativity is consuming your thoughts
probably won't matter in 3 months time
learning comes from the edges and stop
taking things so seriously
to me is
reassuring um it makes me feel less
pressure for getting things perfectly
right if people aren't going to really
remember any of the things that I do and
I'm not probably going to remember them
either what does it matter if it's
perfect what does it matter if I I
should just enjoy it I should just have
fun uh the learning comes from the edges
is so great because you think well I
want I want things to be smooth I don't
want to face these these challenges I
don't want to be in this difficulty I
wish that I didn't have this problem I
wish that this stress wasn't here you go
okay looking back did any of the
development that you care about come
from a period where you didn't have
problems exactly the same as this
completely akin to whatever it is that
you're going through go well you know it
was the most rapid change I actually had
in my life and in retrospect I'm really
really glad for the way that I
alchemized this problem into something
that was beautiful you go okay so is
there any of that energy that you can
take from the past and bring to the
present and say I'm I know that I'm
going through it and I know that it
sucks and I know that trying to be py
and reframing the present moment that is
total ass into oh well you know in the
future I'll be great like yes that sucks
but just that tiny little bit of insight
that's this challenge that you're going
through is a gift to your future
self it
is something that in future you will
look back on with so much pride and and
and
Glory this odd sort of very normal
version of Glory you didn't win a battle
you didn't you didn't complete a war you
didn't you know conquer some new land
but you overcame you conquered a part of
yourself you conquered a challenge that
may
have ended you in one form or another it
may have buried you or B buried somebody
else buried a past version of you that
wouldn't have been able to deal with it
and if your negativity that you're
thinking about now doesn't matter in 3
months time you can't recall it why
waste the moments that you've got this
sort of precious life this brief sliver
of existence in between two eternities
of nothing and problems are a feature of
life not a bug they are just going to
continue coming you're not going to have
a
purpose perfectly smooth ocean
where nothing gets in your way and it
would be boring if you did and despite
the fact that you have these things in
front of you and that the challenges may
even increase in size Your Capacity to
deal with them is going to increase in
kind and antifragility is alive and well
so yeah I hope that that helps you if
you're dealing with some stresses and
problems anyway that is an hour and 15
minutes some lessons that have been
meaningful to me and uh thank you 800
episodes six and a half years uh it's
crazy uh going through a lot of changes
at the moment
um it's an interesting time I guess to
be uh at the Forefront of what's going
on uh definitely feeling the pressure
The increased scrutiny all of that stuff
um but it's good I'm I think this is
going to be given that I've just spoken
about problems and stresses and stuff
like that I think this is going to be
one of those times that I look back on
and go I'm really really glad that I got
through that that wasn't particularly
easy but well done for for making it
work and uh I'm really looking forward
to sort of the next Evolution with all
of these new learnings but for now I
really appreciate you thank you so much
for tuning in Sharing supporting the
episodes it really does mean so much uh
it's incredibly flattering and charming
and reassuring and it makes me it makes
me happy so thank you for being here
I'll see you next time