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I am on a lifelong scavenger hunt looking for the next big toy. >> I think this will be the biggest transaction [music] in pop culture history. >> There's been several in the 5 million range. Nothing like this. >> Yeah. >> So, what determines value of a collectible? Scarcity is everything in collectibles. If you do [music] not have scarcity, that is the death of a collectible. When I was a kid, there were baseball [music] cards that were $15,000 that are now $50 million. And you start seeing these things happen in other categories. Collectibles can be a great way to diversify your portfolio. Why do so many collectors lose money? Don't [music] chase something just because other people are doing it. It's just like a stock in that regard. If you know more [music] about the companies that you're investing in, you tend to do better. What is the rarest and most valuable item you own today? This case is holding the most valuable modern work of publishing. This book was the most ever paid for modern work. >> [music] >> Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. You've predicted and made millions on major collectible trends from Pokemon, WWE, Squishallows, NFTTS, and so on. I'm curious, what is your biggest miss? >> Oh man, I've had a lot of misses, okay? And I think that's the spirit of being an entrepreneur. And most of my misses have been in businesses, not collectibles. Because when you focus on your collectible interests, you you tend to do okay over time. You learn a lot. You become passionate about something. Businesses, if you're investing in someone else's business, it's out of your control. So, I invested in a group on clone uh back in the day, and I lost $60,000, I think, in 3 weeks. And and to me, it was the amount and the time and at the time that I invested, the little amount of money that I actually had. Those three things together made it for me one of my biggest misses. How was it so fast? Where does $60,000 go in 3 weeks? >> That's right. It goes nowhere. Exactly. Who knows why they needed it in the first place, right? Like you It's hard to gauge. The more information you have, the deeper you are in somebody else's organization. The more sense you have is into its investability. But uh yeah, see I would have thought that it would be something like I didn't buy this one collectible that I was super close to buying or I bought it but I sold it too early. But I it just seems like the impact of the $60,000 for you at that time in period of your life was was more impactful. >> It was. It was. And it's, you know, it's it's it's those types of things. It's not the misses where you don't invest in something because you could think of a thousand things that you haven't invested in it over time, whether it was crypto early or whether it is a stock like Apple, which I've had my moments. Uh but the truth of the matter is like it's the things that you actually take an action towards. Those are the things that in my mind are more impactful in terms of your misses. >> What is the rarest and most valuable item you own today? >> I would say the rarest and most valuable item that I own right now is an Ishihara Pokemon card that was issued at his 60th birthday. It's a PSA 10. There are only maybe a hundred in existence. This is the only perfect one. And I think it's a seven figure item. >> A seven. And what did you pay for it? >> I paid uh around $100,000. So, when did you buy it? >> About 2 months after the 60th birthday. Now, I want to be clear. I was invited. I was supposed to be there. I left early because I had young kids and I decided to buy this item later uh because I felt like I missed out. But yeah, not one of my best moments, but turned out to be a great moment. >> So, it appreciated from $100,000 to seven figures in in how long? >> Roughly five years. because I I get I get offers, unsolicited offers for roughly $400 or $500,000. So, I I believe when you have those types of offers and it's not in an auction where really the second highest bidder pushes the first highest bidder, that's when you finally find out what something's truly worth. Has Logan Paul tried to buy it from you? >> No. No. You know, Logan and I have spent some time together on Pokemon, and uh Logan's interest was in the uh PSA 10 Illustrator card, which by the way is probably the goat of Pokemon cards because it also is a a oneofone PSA 10, but it is so well known and so well embraced. It was a 1997 or 1998 Cororo card that was put out in a promotional fashion, and the fact that any of them were perfect really blew our minds. Logan reached out to me uh because he knew that I was a collector. This was just before CO or right during CO. And he asked me, he's like, you know, will you uh will you tell me, you know, what is the what is the greatest Pokemon card of all time? And I said, well, the the most valuable Pokemon card of all time is this PSA 10 Cororo illustrator card. And he said, okay. And we started talking back and forth and he said, you know, where is it? And I just happened to know the guy that owned it in Dubai. So, I reached out to him and over a series of events, he put together over $5 million to buy the card. >> What do you mean put together? >> Well, it was interesting. Okay. Because the offer that I had received from my friend in Dubai was 6 million or a 4 million in cash and a trade for a PSA 9 Illustrator card. So, it was either or. So, Logan reaches out to me one day on video. He get on FaceTime, get on FaceTime. So, I get on FaceTime and he's holding up the PSA 9 and I'm looking at it and I'm like, "Oh my god, he actually did it." And he goes, "Now I want the 10. Now I want the 10." And I was like, "Bro, that means you're going to have to throw $4 million at this." And he was like, "I know what it means." So, he was very generous. He invited me to to come out with him. We flew to Dubai and and did the deal. And everything about it is legitimate. Like I know that there's always questions what's real, what's not real in this world of AI and reality and fantasy blurring. That was 100% real. >> What do you think the card's worth now? >> It's it's interesting. I don't know because it is such rare air. I will say this though, the GOAT cards in other categories are 10x that. So, you know, Pokemon is a critical part of trading cards and of the TCG or or sports cards universe. however way you look at it. And I will tell you that the GOAT cards in other areas are $50 million. The T206 Honus Wagner PSA8 is a $50 million card. The 1952 PSA 10 Topps Mickey Manel rookie card, there's only three of them. It's a $50 million card. So, you know, to think that the highest valued card in Pokemon is five. There may be some upside there. What's an item you lost out the most amount of money because you sold too early? You owned it, you improperly timed the sale, and you lost money. You know what's interesting? I I haven't done a lot of selling. You know, I will say this, the where I lost money was in my desire to hold things that I because I like to collect and I wanted a life story of collectibles. You know, for me, the idea was collect over a lifetime that involves both my professional life and my personal life. Okay? because a lot of those lines are blurred. And then one day when I'm like 70 years old, have this grand auction where my kids would be there and they'd be very proud of this massive result. Um, now of course the world throws you curveballs. So of course the the biggest loss for me was that I'm not going to be able to do that due to the Pacific Palisades fire. Now that's okay. I'm okay with it. I've had plenty of time. Plus I had very good insurance. And that could be a topic that I would love to hit on because I'm telling you people need to insure and take care of their stuff. I did. had a thousand items individually insured and as a result, you know, here I am feeling relatively resilient about all of it. >> So, you were affected by the Palisades fire and you had all of your collectibles there. Basically, >> I had 99.9% I had a couple vaults where I had collectibles that were not in the home because some of them were so valuable that I just decided that it for whatever reason would be best not to have them local. So, what was the value of your collectibles that you had lost? >> Oh gosh, many, many millions. I would say roughly 7 $8 million. >> And how much did it cost to insure them? You know, it's insurance is one of the best things that you can do. And it's one of the least expensive things that you can do. And I and I'll tell you, it's around $5,000 per million per year to have uh complete insurance on on your on your items. Now, for me, I I I will say I had complete insurance, but the value had escalated. >> So, with the value escalation, I I didn't do a good job keeping up with the latest values and and I don't I cut myself some slack on that. Like, who does that? Who goes to their insurance company every year? I'm telling you, do it. >> I do. >> You do it? >> Yeah. >> I'm very impressed. >> Every year cuz I get the renewal letter and I look through and I say, "Okay, that's gone up a million. That's gone up in value." And it's stated value, so you could just say what you want to insure it for. >> Yeah. That's smart. And and and by the way, the insurer was so incredibly, you know, re realistic with the valuations. They they understood collectibles. So, but yeah, I mean, look, I I left millions of dollars on the table. I'm okay with it. But I want to be I want to influence other people to never let that happen to themselves. So, what I tell people is the day that's the most important to your loved ones is like Valentine's Day, right? Every Valentine's Day, do the right thing for your loved one and go look at all of your collectible items, all of your insurance, and make sure that you have prepared them correctly, whether it's life insurance, personal insurance, collectibles, jewelry, art, all of that. Make sure you take care of the people that you love. And I can tell you that I that I mostly did. I'll give myself a B+. Now, one of the things I really enjoyed about your story is that you're good at spotting things before they become mainstream and before everyone else catches on to them. How did you first start making money? >> Oh. Oh, [laughter] so I first started making money with student loans. It's almost embarrassing to say. I feel like a way a rush of like humility come over my body. Uh I did I didn't come from uh wealth. My my dad is a really hardworking person. My mom was a great mom and and together they did what they did and they but by the time it was time for me to go to college um my dad had started a a new business and you know new businesses are are are can be really rough and this was not the perfect time to go. So I went to college and it was very clear to me that I needed to cover as much as humanly possible. So so I did uh through working uh externally and and going to school. But somewhere towards the end of college the the mid90s domain names came around. Okay. And domain names essentially kicked my career off. The problem is my capital was student loans. Now I have to tell you I do not recommend that to anybody. Okay? it. Capital can come from various places. Everyone has access to money. You know, somebody that trusts you that has some money. Okay? Leverage them. Don't leverage your student loans like me. My timing was good though. Okay? The timing was good. So, one of the biggest names early on that I picked up was ACT.com. And act.com, I found it on a message board. So, it was a Yahoo message boards. Okay. and and this name was being sold for $1,000. And I reached out and I said, "Sold." Basically, I mean, who who would think to look at a Yahoo message boards under the domain name category? I said, "Sold." They were going bankrupt as an organization, the small company that used ACT as their name, and I bought it right away. And again, >> you know, so you take one last class, $1,000 goes out the window. And uh that turned out to be an incredible return on investment. >> How much did you sell it for? >> Ultimately, we sold ACT.com for $500,000 and that was a couple years later and it was to Semantic. Semantic act scheduling software. [laughter] Now before they bought it, I will say they did have their moments like I received a phone call. I was around 23 years old and um you know in my little apartment and I get a phone call uh and it's it's never good when they start calling you Mr. or anything when you're a kid, you know? They're like, "Mr. Padau, we have reason to believe that you're holding something of ours that has trademark value." I'm like, "Okay." They're like, "You do you have ACT.com?" I said, "Yes." They said, "Okay, listen, that's ours." I was like, "Oh." I was like, "That's going to be a real surprise to the ACT board and to ACT toothpaste." I was like, "That that to me is ridiculous." I said, 'What you own is one category, one name in the entire trademark registry of all the different categories you could register for. You do not own my domain name. They said, "Let's call you back." So about 30 minutes later, I received another call. Mr. Pedau, we're prepared to offer you $300,000 for your domain name. And I said, "No." And then the third call was, "Jeremy." So I finally graduated to Jeremy. Jeremy would like to offer you a half a million dollars. And I guess there's a difference between when someone says 300,000 and half a million. But my brain just kicked right in and I was like, "Yes." So that was a big game changer for me. I mean, it it really changed my whole universe. That's funny. That reminds me of like people ask, "How much money do you make?" And the guy's like millions. They're like, "How many millions?" He's like.1 million. [laughter] It's like it sounds like so much more than $100,000. You know, half a million is much more than 500,000. absolutely half a million and especially when you're 23 and you don't have any money, you know. I I was making some money because I I had gamed Yahoo. Okay, so Yahoo at the time, so the search functions back in the day, the algorithm was trash. Okay, the algorithm back in the day was essentially do you have two letter A's in front of your name because you show up first in a categorical search. It was very much like a phone book. Like I know at this point, but used to be these big bricks that they would deliver to your home and then everybody was listed to Z and then there was a yellow pages where each company or each category was also listed. So if you wanted to go to uh get your electrician uh you AA would show up first before ZZ which would show up last. That's exactly how Yahoo worked. That's exactly how all search engines worked. So, I decided to game it and I decided to focus on categories that I really knew something about, which was toys and collectibles. And I created absolute basically everything with two A's. Absolute Beanie Babies, Absolute Furby, Absolute Everything. And all of these absolute names were individually um under each category of Yahoo and listed first. So, that was enormous for me. It was that that gave me the idea that domain names may have a lot of direct navigation traffic and value. And so putting those two things together was was spectacular for me. Within 6 months, I went from being broke to being someone that was making more money than my professors, which by the way, I had no how I had no idea how much money they were making, but it was just it felt good to think that. >> What other domains did you buy? >> Gosh, I had uh names like uninsured.com. Um I had names like uh well, I still have jeremy.com. Um I had names like marshmallows. And the first domain name that I ever bought, okay, I don't know, it's all embarrassing, but I feel like I I feel like partially you're my psychologist today, okay? But yeah, I bought schmuck.com. That was the first domain name I ever bought. And the reason why is because I was just typing in generic words and they were making me laugh and I typed in schmuck.com. And interestingly enough, the reason why schmuck.com is worth a lot of money, and I didn't know this, is that it means jewels in German. >> So when you hear schmuck and people kind of joke about, you know what it means, family jewels or jewels, >> that's the that's the rough interpretation or translation. >> I had no idea. >> Yeah. So I sold it to a German jewelry company back in the day. >> How much? >> I think it was like 30 grand, but again, for me, it was a lot of money. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Yeah. And how much did you buy it for? >> Uh $30 right off the registry. >> Unbelievable. >> How many domains have you bought? >> Oh, hundreds. Hundreds of generic terms. And like one of the names that I still own is Pacificpalisades.com, my city name. It gives you so much power because not only can you reach a very specific group of people but in a in a time like this when a city burns down if you can write and I one of one of my talents there's very few is I am a decent writer and I love to advocate for people who have lost something and so it's not hard for me to advocate for my neighbors who have lost so much during this fire especially when a city was so inept. Now, I just got to say that with the new year coming up, a lot of people start thinking about the business they've always wanted to start. But it's usually the legal side that stops them. Everyone says, "Oh, just start an LLC." But what does that actually mean? What forms do you actually need? How do you make sure it's done correctly? And that's exactly why we've partnered with Busy to sponsor this podcast. I've personally used them myself, and I got to say, the process could not have been any easier. 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There's also a link down below in the description. You can just click it right there. busy.com/ic. Thank you so much to Bizzy for sponsoring this episode. What other domains do you currently own? You said jeremy.com. >> Jeremy. Yeah, Jeremy.com. >> When did you buy that? >> I bought that in 1990. No, maybe 2,000. Around 2,000. >> How much did you pay for it? >> I paid $7,000. >> That's got to be worth like a lot of money. I feel like it could be worth like a million bucks. >> It's worth a lot >> to the right person. >> I get offers all the time. In fact, this week I got an unsolicited offer and it was around $100,000. And and by the way, that's that's not me reaching out. That's not me marketing it, but I have zero interest in selling that. I mean, I'm so tied to it. And I love having jeremyjeremy.com as an email address. I love having access to people because they want to reach out to me. And also, I like making other Jeremy's jealous. It's kind of fun. [laughter] One other concept of domain names is that >> I also, you know, I would be engaged with what's the world around me. So, I in 2000, I went to my first Comic-Con with Mattel, who was my first employer in the toy business. And I was like, ComicCon? I was like, such an interesting name. I wonder what other cons have ever been bought. So I basically bought like a hundred names with con after it against everything. And like one was I think one was like women con which I sold to Arnold Schwarzenegger's ex-wife uh I don't remember her name. I I Kennedy something Kennedy. But anyways, I yeah, I had all of these names based on the experiences that I would have every day. And every year I get offers and I just sell names off. >> Was there any domain name that you wanted to buy that you couldn't? >> So yes, there is one X.com. So there's only been three onelet.com domain names ever released. Okay. One was X.com. One was Q.com which turned into Quest Communications. They're a big consulting firm. And one was Z.com. Z.com was owned by a guy named Eric Zast. Just a dude who sold it. I don't know how much he sold it for. I had reached out to him before I didn't have the money. The other X.com was held by a guy with a nice last name Walker. And when I reached out to him, it was just before I had done the deal on act.com. So, I didn't really have money. And he asked I asked him, I said, "Would you sell X.com?" And he said, "Yeah, I will sell it for $10,000. I'll give you 48 hours to get me the money." And I said, "Interesting." And then I did what you do when you're in your 20s, 24, 25. I did nothing. I just goofed off. I hung out. I played video games. I went to school. Got back to him 47th and a half hour. And he was like, he's like, "Look, I'll give you 30 more minutes. That's it. I've got another buyer." And I said, "Okay. Uh, I'm going to get back to you." I didn't believe him. You know, people say that all the time. And I got back to him and he said, "Yeah, I've sold it." And I said, 'Look, tomorrow I'm going to come back to you and I'm going to come with more than $10,000. And then I reached out to my dad and I reached out to other people who, by the way, had a little bit more money now. And I figured 10 grand wouldn't put anybody out. And he was like, "Look, I'll I'll help sponsor you on this. I don't know what it means." I reached back out and I said, "Look," I said, "I will offer you, Rob, $1,000 and I'm going to offer the person that bought it 20% more than they paid for it in one day. It's a hell of a return." And he said, "Okay." He goes, "Look, I if if you you know, if you make the deal happen, let me give you the person's name. It's Elon Musk." And he gave me the guy's email address. Of course, I didn't know who he was. He was 28 years old. And I reached out to Elon Musk and I said, "How would you like to make $2,000 in one day [laughter] selling X.com?" And uh he wrote back one-word answer, "No capital letters." And that was it. That was the end of my ex.com story. >> Did you ever try to email him back and offer more? >> No. Because I think once someone tells you that they're not open to making, you know, 20% on their investment in one day, you do a little bit of research. And I and I did my research after that. I was like, who is Elon Musk? And I looked it up and he had just sold a company and I realized that he first of all, we were not in the same we were not in the same peer group. This guy had made a ton of money and I was a law student, but secondly, um he was pretty definitive and and you know, look, when someone tells you no with all capital letters, it's especially no, [laughter] you know, so I was just like, I will accept no for an answer this time. And I was on to the next. But please keep in mind it was the wild west. So in the wild west there's always the next opportunity. So it was I was on to the next one. It was the entire world. It was an entire dictionary that was wide open for people to buy stuff and then redirect traffic because each of them had enormous amounts of eyeballs. I would just like to tell you oneoff story about the value of these names and why these names had so much value. So I don't know if you've ever heard of the concept of or the term metheloma. >> Mhm. Okay. It's a terrible thing. Like if you get messyloma, you're you're not in good shape. It's a cancer. It's related to asbestous. And it used to be that they would put a lot of asbestous in people's homes and other things, work spaces, etc. So messtheilo.com, which I can barely even pronounce. It's got so many syllables, >> was available for sale. And I passed on it. What do you think that domain name might be worth? Just thinking out loud. Well, I'll tell you. Okay. In the late 90s, early 2000s, lawyers were paying $50 per individual that they could come to their site, which is a crazy amount of money. It's unheard of today, but they were collecting a class of defendants to or plaintiffs for for the methyloma deals. >> And so at $50 a hit, metheloma.com was getting roughly, I don't know, 150 200 people a day typing it in. Direct traffic navigation. So, let's just take the lower number of 100. 100 time 50 is $5,000 a day. If you could get 100% of your people to go through, but if you just put a banner up, it says click here to go to the laws firm and you get half of that, >> you're literally dealing with $2,500 a day. $2,500 a day times 365 days a year is approaching a million. Okay? a million dollars times whatever multiple you want to apply to it is the value of the name. So messyloma.com at least in the late 90s early 2000s was a5 to7 million domain name. This was widely available at the time all of these names. It was fair game you could pick them up for pennies on the dollar. How did you go from that then to building a career in collectibles and toys? >> Yeah. So I I didn't think that the internet was sustainable. Okay. because I didn't necessarily have the vision. Okay, I I knew that I had had a lot of fun and I had made some money, but then in the back of my mind, I was like, "Okay, I I have to go get a real job now. And let me go get a real job so I can understand what it's like to work with other people." Because what I had done to that point was work by myself. And I didn't know how to manage anybody. I didn't know how to necessarily relate to other people professionally. And I wanted to I wanted to make an impact on other people too, not just do creative individual endeavors. And so I at that point in time I had gone to I I went to Vanderbilt for business school. And when I was at Vanderbilt, uh, one of the companies that came through was Mattel recruiting. And you know, when they came through to recruit, I I went and and basically said, "Look, not only do I love toys and collectibles, but I've been in this whole internet space for the last 3 or 4 years, and let me show you what I've done." And uh we I got a job, which was amazing. And uh that's been 25 years in the toy business as a result. >> How old were you when you got the job at Mattel? >> I was 26. How could you justify working a W2 when you've probably already made hundreds of thousands of dollars by, you know, an earlier age just flipping domain names? Wouldn't you see the entrepreneurial spirit in yourself to question whether or not a 9 to5 is worth it? >> Yes, but not in 2000. Not in 2000, 2001. It was a different era. I mean, really, keep in mind, nothing disruptive had ever occurred before. I mean, I guess the industrial revolution, uh, I guess there were periods of time where there were seismic changes in business, but there was nothing quite as life-changing as this. At the same time, when I was entering into Mattel, there was also a bubble that had recently popped. And so, I watched the internet and all these jobs go away. I watched all these giant billion-dollar companies become, you know, $10 million companies. And it just was a little discouraging to me. So, I thought, you know what? I'm gonna follow a life of passion and I I love collectibles. I love toys. Why not give it a shot? And you're right. The first year at Mattel, I made roughly onetenth of the money that I had made my last year as an entrepreneur. But I thought that gravy train might be ending. And the important thing for life is not to treat it as this linear progression where every year has to be better than the year prior. Because when you do that, you will be sorely disappointed. You've got to give yourself an opportunity to grow. You've got to give yourself an opportunity to step back, to go forward. And that was that moment for me. That was one of those moments for me. Were there signs that there was a bubble? >> Yeah, I think calling 23-year-olds and offering them a half a million dollars for a domain name that they paid $1,000 for was a sign of a bubble. But but the bigger signs of of the bubble were was the fact that these businesses were not based on any historical valuations that had been established. You know, when you have Amazon trading at thousands and thousands of times earnings and often based on no earnings whatsoever, um it it was a sea change. And keep in mind, Amazon worked and turned out to this monster of a company, but for every Amazon, there were 50 other companies that didn't work, that didn't make it, that didn't pass the muster. So, when you base so much of the of the trading volume on these things that you're taking the long on, things blow up after a while. You know, it just wasn't ready yet. Now, of course, looking back, all we see are the success stories. We see Facebook and we see the fact that Amazon and Yahoo and all well Yahoo was a minute and gone but you see all of these that worked but you you don't remember all the ones that that did not. >> So how did your career progress after Mattel? Yeah. So, I was at Mattel for a few years, about 3 years, and I got a call from another toy company called Jax Pacific, and Jax just happened to have the WWE license. And I was such a big fan of action figures and the adult collector, and I was doing a lot at Mattel with Hot Wheels and Spongebob and all these other brands, but I had the opportunity to lead a division at 29 years old, which I thought sounded really cool. And I thought, man, it's WWE. love wrestling. I grew up in the South, man. Regional wrestling was the king of the south. Like, you'd go see Jerry Lawler and all these guys come to town and it would blow your mind. They were the celebrities, the only ones that were there. If you're in Columbus, Mississippi or, you know, if you're in uh Memphis, Tennessee, you know, that that is the top of the top. The others are not coming to town. So, when I had that opportunity to work on WWE, for me, it was an absolute yes. And I had the opportunity to build out that division. So, we went from being a fairly small group to uh about eight or nine X after about 7 years that I had on that action figure business. We brought in Pokemon in 2005, 2006 from Hasbro. We grew the WWE business from being uh almost off the shelf after the Attitude Era, like the late '9s was really good for wrestling. The early 2000s was really not. And uh Dragon Ball Z and all these other brands. and it just allowed me to also like learn what it was like to lead a bunch of people early in my life. It turned out to be spectacular. Um, I will tell you one WWE story that changed everything for me. Um, and that was an interaction that I had with Vince McMahon when I was 29 years old, who by the way is a fascinating character in real life, especially when you're 29. >> WWE was almost off the shelf. Okay. WWE was literally being taken off the shelf because the attitude era, everything was treated like it was kids toys. Okay? Everything today we see in the world of collectibles at the time it was kids toys. >> But there was a sea change and Walmart had told us like if you don't do more business soon you're going to be off the shelf. So >> I sat down and I thought what do I want? What would I like to buy? Like let's stop making product just for kids. What do I want? And I thought I know what I want. I want to celebrate the entire history of wrestling. So, one of the things that I did early was create something called Classic Superstars, which celebrated 30 years of pro wrestling and all the characters that Vince McMahon no longer had on TV because his mindset was if it's not on TV, they're a competitor. So, I sat down with Mr. McMahon and I said, "Hey, Vince, you know, we have an opportunity, you know, to to bring back this world of wrestling, but not for kids, for collectors." And he said, "Okay, you know, okay, tell me more. Tell me more." And I told him, I was like, "I think that we can turn this into a serious toy brand if we reach out to collectors through the best of 70s, '8s, and '90s, celebrating all of your alumni the way they do in the NFL, Major League Baseball, and other major sports." and he was cool with it. He was actually like, "Okay, his biggest issue was what do we do with these contracts?" Because if I sign all these pro wrestlers and like Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan and all of these luminaries, what happens if WWE later wants to establish an alumni group? And I said, "We can solve that by as soon as you sign them, we lose the rights to the deal entirely. You get the rights and but we get the rights to the toys." He was like, "Okay." So, the first assortment we put out had Ultimate Warrior, Bret Hart, guys that he was actively in a lawsuit with. Uh, but he was still okay because it was the right thing for the business. >> So, wrestling is an interesting genre and it is its own universe. I can tell you it's huge. We we turn it into the largest action figure uh brand in the world, bigger than Star Wars or anything else at that time. >> What was the best business advice you've been told? The best business advice I've been told, okay, I remember it was by a guy that we had just acquired their pet business. And at that time, I didn't know anything about pets. I just knew it was kind of like kind of like making products for kids or collectors cuz dogs and cats are parts of families, but humans make the purchase decision. So, I was like, "Okay, I I think I can understand how to do this." And I said to him, I said, "You know, I don't know anything about this category." He goes, "Mate," he goes, "It doesn't matter what you know." He goes, "All that matters is that you know people that know stuff." He goes, "Know how to leverage them. Know how to leverage what they do best." He said, "And you'll always be fine." And I was like, "Oh my god." Cuz especially coming from that entrepreneurial background, >> like my mindset was like, >> "If you can't do it yourself, how are you going to get this done?" And he was telling me, "No, no, no. Leverage the strength of the room." And that was a game changer for me. And I really embraced that after that. 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Thank you so much to RocketMoney for sponsoring this episode. And how did you discover Squishallows? [laughter] >> Well, that was a that was a group decision, but I'll tell you. So, in 2012, we started a new company called Wicked Cool Toys. Okay, this was after me being an executive in companies for 13 12 13 years after Mattel and after Jackson. Wicked Cool Toys was a really fun wild west purely entrepreneurial opportunity. Every single year we would barely make it. We'd have one thing that would get us to the next year, but we would grow. So, one year we bought brought back Cabbage Patch Kids. One year we brought back Teddy Ruxman. One year we brought out the very first Girl Scout activity oven where you could make your own Girl Scout cookies at home. So every single year we had something that would get us the next year, allow us to really hype it up and get retail excited. And then in around 2016, I get a phone call from Pokemon and they were like, "Hey Jeremy, we really appreciated the way you managed our business at Jax." Uh they had they had gone to another toy company in the interim. >> Mhm. And they said, "Um, do you want to pitch for the global rights to Pokemon?" And I said, "Um, yeah." Because I knew that we were not big. We were surviving year to year. And by the way, it's not fun to have so much on the line at the time. My partners Thomas and Michael, we all had it out. We all had it all on the line. And uh, anyways, net result is I said, "Yes, but we're too small." I was like, "We will lose if you're gauging us on our size." because we were going up against nothing but billion dollar companies. So it was us versus three other billion dollar companies. We were 30 $40 million and not profitable. >> So we pitched it and everybody went into that room and told Pokemon all the wonderful things they could do for Pokemon. And I went in the room and basically understood this is the most strategic brand and the most well-managed brand that I've ever seen. How can I truly add value when all of these people here add so much value already? So I told him all the things that we wouldn't do. We would never ask of them. That's part of reading the room. That's part of leveraging other people's strengths and recognizing that they exist. So after saying that, I knew the room felt like it melted. It felt like people were like, "Oh, interesting. You know what? That is the difference between this little company and these big companies." So the net result is I get a phone call 3 weeks later. My buddy Colin, Jeremy, you didn't you guys didn't get it. You you had the best pitch. You won the pitch. you're too small. And I said, listen, I was like, we need this. I was like, before we get off the phone, I was like, tell the powers that be that we we will give 3% of the company and I will give up my personal board seat to Pokemon in order to make this deal happen. And he listened and he was like, "Let me [clears throat] get back to you." And he calls me back a few minutes later. He goes, "Look, come meet our CFO, our chief legal officer. Do the pitch again." And I did. And they were like, "You know what? This is good. We'll take the 3%. We'll take a board seat. You save your own board seat. We don't want you off the board. We don't want you to leave. What are you doing? But we need to buy a share, a partnership share, so that we can capitalize you to launch Pokemon globally." That was right before Pokémon Go. They had made one other acquisition. Uh it was Niantic, >> and then we were the second partnership. And I can tell you it was a gamecher. When I tell you game changer, I mean it was the difference of us potentially going bankrupt or or every year trying to get the next one and immediately being one of the most important toy companies in the world. And it was such a shocking moment for me and of course we agreed and it was signed off. And about 3 or 4 years later, so 2019, we sold to a private equity called Alagany Capital. uh they were an insurance company with a big capital arm and they had already acquired several years before a company called Jazwares which was a incredibly well-run company and we were like oo that's interesting they had a really smart CEO Juda brilliant people and I was like interesting you know what I think we could make this work so we retained a share so I retained a partnership sold some put cash in the bank and about two months later we're looking at opportunities and very smart team. We're all sitting together and we're looking at Squishallows and we're like, you know what? Let's let's go for it. I realize it's a very long answer, but the truth of the matter is life is not so simple. Anyway, so >> Squishallows want to sell like how did you go about that? >> I will have to give credit to Jud and and also uh two there's two Juds Kroski Zerski. These two guys are quite genius and uh they came across it and we all you know we all had the opportunity to sit down and discuss it but it was just blowing up. The the brand was blowing up. It was still small. It was still a 30th of what it is today but it was interesting because it was owned by a company that does amusement plush. Now, when you think about amusement plush, you probably think about going to an amusement park and these kind of cheap thin, really thin, you know, fabric, not the highest quality. But these guys were trying some new things and they had created a brand called Squishallows and they they had it in amusement and they also had it at Walgreens and it was blowing up at Walgreens. Squishallows was killing it at Walgreens. And I think that when you're in the amusement business, your mindset is more like, okay, what's the hot thing this year? Let's keep going. Whereas when you're in the more traditional brand building business, your mindset is how can we turn this into an evergreen brand that lasts for decades. So we were looking at it under different lenses and therefore there was a value creation opportunity. Okay. When two people are looking at the same thing, they could both be exactly right, but their mindset and their lens that they're looking at it through changes the entire dynamic of the situation. So for us, we were like, "Interesting. It's killing it at Walgreens. Why wouldn't it kill it everywhere? Let's buy it and then study it." We had to move quickly, right? Whenever you identify value creation, you've got to move fast. So, we moved quickly. We bought it. I wrote a check. Everyone wrote a check, which by the way absolutely tore me in half. To get a check and to write a check within that two-month period, that's hard. >> How much was it? >> Well, I I don't know if I can disclose the amount that Squishallows was bought for, but I can tell you that we grew it literally 2030 times. And today, it's a a multi-billion dollar global franchise. And we sold last year three units per second every second of the year. 100 million units last year. Since the deal, we've sold over 500 million units. And and by the way, everyone did well. This is not a situation where the the person that that originally owned Squishallows, you know, stepped away hurting. Um he was part of the team and he also did an excellent job. This is really a great story where everyone won. My favorite kind of business story. >> Macy loves Squishallows. Loves them. Unfortunately, every time we go to Costco, she wants to buy one. And I say, "We already have like six of them." And she But this one's cute. We don't have [laughter] this one. We uh she even set up a a Squishallow Christmas tree. >> Okay. >> It's a whole It's dedicated to Squishallows instead of ornaments. It's like the little tiny ones. >> She loves some. >> That's amazing. Thank you for that. No, I I it's >> I feel like I'm living a bit of an out-of- body experience because I hope what you guys have recognized so far is this was not a silver spoon situation. This was a this was a scratch and claw and take risks and try things. This was a forget the linear nature of life and do things completely off the rail. Like for instance, you know, paying for school or going to law school and then going to business school and paying for it or doing things on student loans for domain names or starting a business after you're already a successful executive and putting everything on the line. Like every step of the way was risk. There's no doubt. But I was lucky cuz I loved it. I I was passionate about it. I love the subject matter. And that's the reason why I tell people it's so important to have a passion for the things that they do. You go to work every day. It makes you smarter. It makes you more insightful. And so for me being 29 years old and sitting with Vince McMahon, it felt much more comfortable for me and it allowed me to communicate to him in a way that was rational because I loved it and he got it. He understood I did. >> When did you meet Warren Buffett? >> Okay, this is this is a whole another story. So, in 2022, 2022, um, I'm in my bed, it's early, and I get a text. Of course, you know, I'm a funloving person. I get a lot of silly texts. And I get a text, "Hey, congratulation. Your new boss is Warren Buffett." I was like, "It's 6 a.m. Just leave me alone. Let me sleep another 30 minutes for God's sakes." Yeah. And I get another text from another person who's not very funny. Yo, I heard about Warren Buffett. I'm like, what is going on? Okay, now keep in mind when you sell a company, but you retain a part of something new. Your control is not necessarily at the highest level. I mean, that's one of the reasons why entrepreneurs decide to bail on companies that they're part of. They just they bail because they they used to be in extreme control and now they lack control. >> That's never good. Well, in this case, it turned out to be great because I found out later that day that AlaGany, the the company, the the private equity firm that bought us 100% of its assets to Birkshire Hathaway after a dinner between Warren Buffett and their CEO. Uh, and a napkin was passed across the table with a number that the guy accepted, which is awesome. It's like so awesome. Like Warren Buffett is the greatest business person of all time because he's so real. Like again, passion, right? This is a guy that would study stuff when he was a kid in the back room like looking at these books that nobody else would make any sense of, but he did. >> So, yeah, it's it was wild. I had no control over that. I had no awareness of it. And once Alagany was purchased, I will say that the team at Jazwares did a great job at communicating to Birkshshire Hathway how important we were uh part of the Alagany family and how critical it would be for us to be part of the Birkshshire Hathway family. Have you ever spoken to Warren Buffett? Yes. Every year at the uh shareholders meeting, there's an annual shareholders meeting. There's like 40 50,000 people that come in. Now granted, these are not long conversations and there's a group of us. There's about five or six people on the leadership team and we all gather around and Warren Buffett goes from group to group. Now, keep in mind if you've never been to the Berkshire Hathaway annual shareholders meeting, it is part of it is like this giant warehouse, okay, that is like Comic-Con but for only Birkshire Hathway owned companies cuz they own 60 companies and each stall is a different group of entrepreneurs or organizations like Fruit of the Loom or Seas Candy or Jazwares where we're communicating with with consumers and also uh selling things like it's a for-profit thing are selling like Squishallows or limited edition Warren Buffett squishallows and each year Warren comes around and talks to each one of us and so yes uh get pictures of Warren I but like emails are kind of like this and every time it's really exciting like yes this is it like we're going to be bros and it's like from the desk of Warren Buffet you're like oh let's open this baby let's go and you open it up and it's like hi can you please send Squishallows to Becky quick and you're like oh that's not the strategic that I was looking. That's okay. I'll take it. This is good enough cuz you you are >> you're a you're there. You're with the Oracle. You're with the greatest of all. >> Becky. >> Oh, Becky Quick's an MSNBC anchor. And every year she covers the Berkshire Hathway event. >> So [laughter] yeah. >> Gosh, you'll get emails from me. Hey, send from the desk of Graham Stefen. Send these Squishallows to Mac Squishallows. >> Well, you know what's interesting? My wife gave you what I would say is probably the greatest compliment, Graham. >> Yeah. >> She said to me after cuz we had the opportunity to spend some time together and she said to me after you left the house, she goes, "He reminds me of a young Warren Buffett." >> Oh god, don't say that. I'm telling you. That's just the worst possible thing you [laughter] could have said. >> It was true. Ears I'm not making up. She said that. Now, keep in mind, she's a physician, so it's not like she knows one business person from the next, >> but she got that vibe. And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, he's a he's a visionary guy. He's a visionary. >> Pretty accurate. Wouldn't you say so? >> No. >> I would I would tend to agree. >> What's the most valuable lesson you've learned from Warren Buffett? Oh, the most valuable lesson from Warren Buffett is just to be in the moment. I mean, again, the way he acquired that particular company. Clearly, they did incredible amount of homework, but he's also always in the moment. Like, if you watch his annual speech, it's like a six-hour Q&A. He's folksy. He's humble. He's brilliant. But that brilliance is delivered within all of the reality of what else makes him so great and so accessible. And so, yeah, for me it was like here is one of the three richest people in the world and he could be like your uncle or cousin or just like this other guy that you meet at when you're getting your haircut. Like, I love that. I love it when people don't stand on all of their accomplishments and try to tower over you. And he is the opposite of that. He is truly the goat. >> So, in the simplest of ways, explain to me what it is now that you do for work. Oh, >> okay. [laughter] Yeah. So, today I'm the chief brand officer at Jazwares. And basically chief brand officer means that I'm focused primarily on things like building new business, bringing new business in, licensing, marketing, brand, work deeply in the sales organization, uh work deeply in the legal organization, all the stuff that I would say is not the nuts and bolts of accounting, finance, operations. That would be roughly what I do. And today we are the global partner for Pokemon still. Uh Hello Kitty, Fortnite, Roblox. We're the we're still the makers of Squishallow because we we own it and we create new brands every single year. We do deals with all the major studios, Disney, Warner Brothers, Universal, etc. And it's always a hunt. I'm on a constant scavenger hunt. Whether it's meeting with inventors, whether it's meeting with licensing partners, whether it's meeting with the my own team that may come up with something cool, I am on a lifelong scavenger hunt looking for the next big toy. What do you think of Leuboo's? I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing. Okay, I'm going to step back and say it is an indicator of where the market is right now. Okay, 25 years ago when I started at Mattel, the adult collector was the fourth or fifth largest category of consumer. The largest would been like 6 to 11 year olds and then preschoolers and then zero to two. And then once you go all the way down the path, you would find these adults, which everyone considered nerds. And I was the king of the nerds. And I was communicating on on He-Man.org and all the other websites that were out there to communicate with the consumer. And today, the adult collector is the number one consumer group. Number one. They left every other person. And it's due to, you could call it COVID or anything else. It doesn't matter. >> Adults are much more in tune with their imagination. They're much more in tune with their fandom and they're in tune with the with the secondary market value of collectibles in a way that they used to not be because collectibles have had a really amazing return on investment year after year. And so Leubu, I would say, is a great indicator that adult collectors, men, women, etc. are all engaged in in both the primary and secondary market for toys and collectors. How much of that though is just wanting something to show off? Cuz that seems to me that nobody actually likes Laboos, but they just buy them to be able to show off that they own one and that they're a part of a group that owns Laboos. >> Well, in defense of Laboo. >> Yeah. Okay. What I would say is there's a community. There's every one of these collectible categories has a community. And these communities tend to be pretty big. The interesting thing about labu is that they're also kind of a fashion accessory. So people are not only using it to say, "Hey, look, I'm part of this community." Or, "Hey, look, I've got something rare and valuable." It's also to say, "Hey, look, I'm fashionable." Now, that's an interesting twist. And that's really cool. And that to me is a great indicator of what you can do next, which is the idea of a toy person entering into every category imaginable, where we add limited edition nature, where we add rarity and scarcity and the and apply the economics that we understand works for collectibility and the currency of collectibility and every category you can think of from drinking wear to iPhone cases to everything else because that's where we are today. You know what's interesting is I honestly have always hated LeooBoos. I think that they're so dumb. I don't think they look cool. I think that like the idea of having that as a fashion accessory is >> it's weird. >> It's weird. It's lame. It's not When I say it's weird, it's lame. That's my personal opinion. That I'm not saying that in an objective way. That's just not my taste. >> It's fair. >> So, that's a better way of putting it. It's not my taste. But I will say, >> yes, >> now that I'm thinking about it, if Pokemon came out with blind boxes where you opened one up and then you could just like get >> pack. That's a pack of Pokémon cards. >> Yeah, but I'm talking about like a stuffed animal that's easier to display in your room. If I wanted to put it up on a shelf, then would be a Pokemon card. And I think that would actually be kind of cool. Like if you could if you could try to get like the shiny Charizard or like the shiny Pikachu, I would actually honestly I would >> I would probably go out and buy. So, see that's interesting, right? So, he turned himself in literally 30 seconds into someone that understands why this category exists. Now, I'm going to tell you something that may or may not make sense, but the hat you're wearing right now, the ice coffee hour hat, there are collectible caps. There are collectible caps that are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, right? It's a fashion accessory. Okay? They used to be purely for utility. When my dad's dad was a child, the only reason why you would wear that hat is to protect yourself from the sun. So, every single generation comes with it all new cultural norms. And this is a new norm. This is just a new norm. Wearable fashion accessories is a new norm. They used to look like toys, but now they're collectibles. It's fascinating. Humans are interesting. We're amazing creatures, but we're always evolving. >> Do you think Laboos are going to be going down in value? I don't want to predict another company because I would say that they're a competitor and I don't want to predict that they're going to go down in value. >> You're supposed to say yes, they're going to crash in value. >> I can't [laughter] I can't say it. I mean, I will say I will say this, it all comes down to how well they're managing the the system of collectibility because scarcity is everything in collectibles. I if you do not have scarcity and you manage your scarcity wrong, your collectibility and your secondary market value goes down and that is the death of a collectible. So what determines value of a collectible? Is it literally scarcity? Is it anything else? Like I feel like it's hype. That's the main thing. For example, Graeme was telling me, how did Luboos even come about? It was a Korean pop star, right? A K-pop star who did a series where she said, "These are the things I can't live without." She's like, "And this Laboo." And what's so cool about the Laboo is that there are these blind boxes and you have no idea what's inside. Maybe you get the rare one. [laughter] And then she talked about it. And I believe Kim Kardashian then got one. And then it just blew up in the United States. And then everybody started getting Leuboos. And then you started getting all the press that people were waiting in line at PopMart. And I remember even here in Vegas there was like a PopMart that opened. It was a big deal. like a really big deal that this store opened up and people were lining up the day before just to get the chance to get a Lebu and I'm thinking that can't be sustained like that that usually from what I see goes away after a few months when everyone purchased it. It's hard to sustain that sort of momentum. Well, these things tend to evolve. Okay. So, what happens is all that momentum tends to evolve into something else, which isn't necessarily makes it the hottest thing in the world, but hopefully you build a consumer base that's large enough to where there's a long-term community that's created and every single year you're selling to a group of people who are dieards. And uh that doesn't it doesn't make up for that biggest pop. But I will tell you this, Pokemon in 1999, it was that moment. Pokemon was did it like like billions of dollars right out of the gate in in North America and by the time I got it and by the time we I was the master toy partner at my old company it was small we couldn't you know there were years where we weren't doing a lot of volume and so and over time it's the best managed brand in the world and they have developed what has turned out to be the most valuable piece of IP ever created by humans so like it is normal to have that initial burst followed by a period of time where people are like, "Yeah, I told you it's over." Followed by a long period of time where either you're managing it well or you're not. And so the story of Laboo and everything like it is told only in time. So I I I really believe it comes down to how well managed it is. >> How do you verify authenticity and making sure you're not getting a fake? >> It just depends on the category. Okay. And and the good news about these archival services is it does help if you buy something that's already been pre-archived and has been, you know, has been t has been put in a case and has been added to a database. At the very least, it helps you mentally go, okay, this was real enough for an expert. Um, but that's tough because the more valuable something is, the more people are going to be seeking to steal that that value for themselves. So, um, the good news is, uh, especially today when there's only, you know, the we talked about the the Upper Deck exquisite cards that have come out. >> There's only one of those uh, Jordan Kobe cards of that era. You know where it is. If the second one pops up, it's not real, right? So, like super high-end collecting, at least you have that. But yeah, wherever you have something of value, there's going to be somebody that's going to try to fake it. What's to stop somebody though from taking a PSA slab, replicating it perfectly, putting the same number at the top, and saying, "Well, this is a first edition Charizard, right? >> And it's a PSA 10, and you just copy the number of another card." and you seal it and it looks visually the same. >> Yes. >> How would you know? >> There's a registry. >> Yeah. But it would copy the same thing on the registry. >> Yes. But the good news about that registry is that individuals who buy these cards have accounts on the registry. They go in and they say, "Uh, this is my card. This is my card. This is my card." And and you have a hundreds of cards in your own in your own collection in the world. And if somebody else would were to say, "Hey, I have that particular card, you as a collector should go to the registry and see if it matches that particular person who says that they're selling it." And if it doesn't, they should not be selling that card until they've put it under their own name, under their own name in the registry. I'm just Look, it's not perfect. Yeah. >> By any stretch of the imagination, but it is a layer of protection. Why do so many collectors lose money on things that they gamble or speculate on? You know, my dad got a Teddy Rexpin. Yes. >> And it never went up in value. >> What is that? >> It's an old like toy and he kept it sealed and it was like a talking toy and you put batteries in the back of it. >> And he bought one for me and I remember playing with it and then he bought one that he never opened and it's still unopened and we still have it. But you could go on eBay and you find these things for dirt cheap also just unopen. They never went up in value. Or Beanie Babies, another one that just spiked and people were putting their retirement in Beanie Babies and then lost all of their money. Well, look, it comes down to this and this is what I tell people. Study and follow your passions so that you learn so much about a category that you can protect yourself from yourself. I mean, really. Yeah. So, so how do you enter into a new category? To to me, when I enter a new category, I want to learn what the most valuable items in that category are, the most anything's ever sold for. So, for instance, in cards, I want to know about the 52 Mantle or the Honest Wagner. I want to know about the Pikachu Illustrator card. I want to know about all that stuff. And then I want to work my way down a path of something that I know a lot about. So, if I'm a big basketball fan, I want to focus on basketball. And if I'm a big Jordan fan, I want to focus on Jordan and continue to narrow my base of what I can collect from down to something that I feel like I can learn and know more than most people that are buying and selling. It's just like a stock in that regard. If you know more about the companies that you're investing in, you tend to do better. If you have more insight, you tend to do better. So, what I recommend is don't chase something just because other people are doing it. Don't go after and say, "Oh, this is hot. I'm going after it." Learn, study, focus on your passions. It's very much like managing a career. And frankly speaking, collectibles can be a great way to diversify your portfolio. Realistically, what percentage of someone's portfolio should be in collectibles? Now, I have no idea how this happens, but every single year, the holidays come sneaking up so quickly. All of a sudden, you're decorating, you're hosting, you're trying to get everything done last minute. That's why our sponsor, Wayfair, is there to help. Wayfair is basically a one-stop shop for everything home. From furniture and decor to kitchen essentials and bedding, they have it all. And it's especially helpful when you're doing things last minute. 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Click the link down below in the description to get started today and download the Helium mobile app for iOS or Android. Enjoy. Realistically, what percentage of someone's portfolio should be in collectibles if they're interested in it? Yeah. I mean, like look, if if it is your life's passion, 10 to 15% put it in collectibles. Put money into the stock market, put money into real estate, put money into bonds, and put money into other things. 10 to 15%. >> Is that where you're at about? >> Um, I'd say more like five. >> Oh, okay. So, it's a relatively small portion for you. >> Yeah. I saw this tweet. This was kind of going viral. Says four years of ownership. He paid $320,000. Took it from 1,200 to $17,000 and he sold it for 315,000. So, to own this car here, it cost him $5,000 over the course of a few years. That's that's amazing. And then everyone started responding to this tweet with their exact with very similar, you know, that's how I I saw you respond to. I was like, I first one, dude. I >> I think you were the second one. I think you were the second one. >> I saw that when it had a few thousand views on it and I'm like, I'm going to share my story and it got a million views. >> And so Graham show shared his story with >> everyone else chimed in. So I want to say that was uh this guy here. And so everyone was showing their examples of buying a really expensive car, 300, 400, $500,000, driving it, adding miles to it, and then all of a sudden, just a couple years later, it's worth the exact same amount. So effectively, it could be cheaper to be driving a Bugatti or a Lamborghini Aventador than a Honda Civic. >> Technically, I lost more money on my Tesla Model 3 than my Ford GT. >> That's interesting. Oh, wow. Ford GT. >> So the Ford GT made me money. The Tesla lost me money. >> So that's Graham and I were having this discussion recently where I was saying that if you live in abundance and you spend more money, you go to more events, you buy more luxury things that it oddly enough through some weird way that life takes you will end up making more money for you. And I I I kind of think that if you buy a 4GT, maybe you go to a 4GT meetup and you meet somebody, you do a deal with them or you just hold on to a very, you know, exclusive asset and then these exclusive assets, they get destroyed as long as you maintain them, they go up in value over time. Whereas like the more expensive, if you live very frugally, then I do think that you know what you put out you it kind of comes back to you. >> I want to give you an example. Go ahead. That's very interesting. I bought uh the 2010 Tesla Roadster in yellow with Carl. Carl on the podcast. I lost money on the Tesla Roadster. I paid 130 for it and it's worth less because Elon did his thing and the desire for Tesla just went down. But it was through that Tesla that we met cuz I put up a thing like, "Hey, any buyers here, just reach out." You reached out. We kept in touch. Now we have you on the podcast. It was through you that you put us in touch with Rick Caruso. >> Yes. I really want to help Rick get elected with whatever he decides to run for. I want to fully back and help his campaign. Like it's just that one purchase even though on paper it might have lost me money probably ended up as a net benefit overall when you account for all these little ancillary things that have come from that Tesla. >> Yeah. And you've also you spoke about it, you've made videos about it, people bring it up, you get to show it off. Like there I think that when you live like a wealthy person, then wealth and abundance and opportunity kind of starts coming to you. There's also risks associated with that >> for sure. Like he lost money like objectively if you just isolate it on his Roadster. But also it's that same behavior that led to him buying the Ford GT which is another luxury good which he ended up making money. Jack's looking for an excuse to spend a little more money right now. >> Yeah, I would say do it. >> But I would also say do it on something you know a lot about. And and here's the truth, okay? You don't have to be stinking rich to take some of those risks, okay? But you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. So, let's just say you have a 401k and you've got $150,000 and and with that $150,000, you could theoretically cash it out and go get this car that you're planning on potentially breaking even on and making great relationships over. There's a also a chance that that won't happen. The the problem with it not happening is it is the only chance. It is the only opportunity. And so, that's the that's where it starts to get a little bit hazy. Now, I say that and I was buying domain names on student loans. So like, okay, you know, I just felt like I knew something that other people didn't know. So I think it really comes down to what's the asymmetry of information? How much more do you know than everybody else about something? If you feel like you've got incredible insights, you're not following the crowd, you're ahead of the crowd, then yeah, go for it. Try it. If you feel like you're behind, don't don't follow your way into taking the singular risk that could ruin you. How But how do you spot something that other people don't see it? just seems like you have an eye and you say this is going to be valuable. Like we were talking the other day and you gave me these great ideas of things that I never really thought about. You're like, "Oh yeah, you know, 10x in 10 years would be a good return and you could do like with these little things here." Like I was even looking at uh sealed PlayStation ones, like the original PlayStation, and everything is on eBay and just like all these weird things from my childhood, like how do you know what's going to be worth money and what's not? analogies, okay? They're always good to use. So, when I was a kid, there were baseball cards that that you can that are now $50 million that were $15,000. Okay? But I watched that go from 15,000 to 100 to a million to 10 million to 50 million. And you start seeing these things happen in other categories, emerging categories of collectibility, and you go, "Oh, I can kind of connect the dots here. So, what's the most valuable thing that's ever what's the most valuable magazine that's ever come out? What's the most valuable record album that's ever come out? And there are other indicators that I look for, like are they being graded? Is there someone that's archiving grading and then and then publishing the population reports of these graded assets? Like, there are ways to get ahead of these categories. And to me, I love being ahead. I love it. It's my favorite thing. But again, remember, I'm on a treasure hunt on a lifelong treasure hunt because that's my job. That's so interesting. It just got me thinking of like like the first what do you call it? Discover magazine or whatever. First Time magazine. What about the first ever McDonald's menu? >> Fine. >> I'm going to find that pretty cheaply. >> I've been trying to find the original Playboy >> with Marilyn Monroe on the cover. I found a good one on on Facebook. I'm just saying. >> How much is it? >> I think it was like $23,000. >> That actually honestly is not that expensive. >> Not not graded, but it doesn't seem like they come up in perfect condition. It's very unusual to find a graded above like a five or a six. And by the way, he sold so many copies of that first edition. But you can imagine these magazines are not in great condition. >> They're used, Jack. You would know all about >> dude. [laughter] So these mint magazines are pretty spectacularly rare. Now, of course, if you have the collector mentality today, it makes more sense. But in 1960, who was thinking about that? It just >> it to me it seems like it goes on a curve of it's really popular and then it dies down and you got to get it when it when it's died down. But how do you tell when it's going to be going back up? >> Like the Beanie Baby example, it you would think that it should be going back up and that people would now look back at like the Princess Diana Beanie Baby and buy that one. It still seems like there's not any demand for that. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. There is a community. There is a community of collectors for Beanie Babies. And if you look on eBay and you list by sold auctions and you go from high to low, you'll find there's Beanie Babies that are still selling today in in the tens of thousands of dollars range. The community is just not as big as you might have remembered in the 1990s because the the late '9s where it was just such a huge rush. But actually, Tai does a great business even today. they just don't position it as much as a collectible, as a toy. Today, they're more positioned towards toys. But some of those older Beanie Babies, there's still a community that actively buys and sells. And interestingly enough, maybe that is an opportunity to find what is the most valuable, what is the rarest, like Funko Pop or, you know, any of these categories. You know, you might find that the most valuable one is 30 grand. And if you find that, it's an interesting opportunity if you draw the analogy to other collectible items that have sold for $50 million. >> I just think we were talking original Disney props and I think any anything before Christmas, Haunted Mansion, >> uh old Disney, I think is going to do incredibly well. It's hard to find movie props. So, I was looking at uh I think it was Heritage Auctions where they were doing a lot of the old movie props and it it's hard to find something like an original lightsaber. >> You know, something like this would be incredible. It >> would be amazing. And actually, one just sold in the millions of dollars. Um >> there was these ruby red slippers, right, from the Wizard of Oz. >> It was something that we were talking about earlier. And I was covering that like cuz on my own Instagram, I'm just a big collector nerd and I love it. But I was covering it and I was like, "This is a million5 with 3 days left." It was kind of amazing. The pair of shoes were a million5. I think they sold ultimately for over $25 million. $25 million for for Ruby >> Red 32. It was $ 32,500,000 plus. There are probably buyer fees on top of that. >> That That's what it was. It was 32 with the buyer fees. >> So $32 million. That's serious money. But but what's the analogy? The analogy is, well, there's plenty of movie props over time that are maybe that's the grail, but aren't there other things that are just right under that or maybe close to the same level that have sold for hundreds of thousands or thousands of dollars and people don't necessarily know what they're holding or they go to a auction house that's not very well trafficked. Like, there's all kinds of opportunities out there right now when it comes to movie props and memorabilia. >> Do we know who bought that? >> I don't. very curious. >> How much money do you think you have to have to spend $30 million on red shoes from the Wizard of Oz? >> A billion. >> I would feel like you have to be at least [clears throat] multi- billionaire. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there is there's another thing that's happening right now. There there are syndicates of investors that are working together. >> Oh, interesting. >> To establish a large pool like like they do when it comes to like um you know these funds that you can invest in. >> Fractional ownership. >> Yes. But like fractional ownership, like there are really great fractional companies like Rally out there that buy an asset. Uh but I'm talking about funds that are owned much the way you would invest in a fund where there's like three or 4 hundred people that have put money in uh to own companies fractionally where the objective is to buy this and to sell it in a very specific window of time. And those exist right now. In fact, one of my my buddies Shine and uh Mr. wonderful from um >> Shark Tank. >> Shark Tank has recently created one of those funds and it's a it's a closed fund. There's only like several people in it, but they've already put like $50 million into buying high-end trading cards. >> Didn't What did he just buy? He just spent $12 million. >> He bought it was a basketball card. Was it Zion Williamson or something? >> That's right. He bought They bought a Jordan Kobe Upper Deck Exquisite card >> signed. >> Signed by both. and and those exquisite cards were very unusual because it was it was a time where the card market wasn't at its very top. It it had really kind of bottomed out. And this was a very new concept to card collecting. If you remember, you know, well, you don't remember, but I remember back in the 1980s, there was a huge boom in cards, but everything was overs supplied and there was no rarity, so you couldn't get like a one of 10 or a one of one. But Upper Deck and some of these other companies in the in the mid to late 90s started really utilizing that and in utilizing that they created a monster. Okay. But and that's the entire basis of card collecting today is this chase this lotto this collectible system and uh yeah Alpert Exquisite they they they've really done a lot of investing in that category. What has working in collectibles being a collector yourself taught you about the way that the human psychology works? I think that we want to be parts of communities. I think that we want to show off our fandom. I think it's it's only so fun to make money with a home or a stock. How much more fun is it to do it in something that you love, that you can have a part of, that that you can hold in your hands, that's tangible, that you can put in a frame or you can show off to your kids. Like, it's a whole thing. It's such a it's such a buzz to have that feeling. And yeah, I think that that's what's driving a lot of it. both on on one hand community and fandom on the other hand just being able to have a tangible piece of something that means so much to you. >> Do you think everyone is a collector of something or do you think that like true minimalism also exists? >> It definitely exists. I think there are people that think all of this is quite silly, but they're fewer and further than they used to be. >> Like again, 25 years ago, my first Comic-Con, we sold this He-Man statue at Mattel. Okay. It was one of the ve it was the may have been the first limited edition Comic-Con item. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it was. And we opened up at 9:00 a.m. and I heard in the background like this fighting and people stomping and I was like, it's so weird. We were in this small little 20x 20 booth. There was like six of us from Mattel. And then I heard it getting closer and closer and closer and everybody's running towards us. I see these people running towards us. I'm like, where are they going? They're running to us because it was a limited edition He-Man statue. He-Man hadn't been out since 1983 and it was this autographed statue by the Four Horsemen. It was really cool. And then I heard this lady go, "My knee." And I was like, "Oh my god, my career is over before it starts." And so I saw this lady laying down and these other collectors are literally running her over. I'm like, "I'm dead. It's over." I was like, "This was a great this was a great shot. I'm going to go back and buy more domain names." And I ran over to her and she's laying down. Oh, my knee, my knee. Ow, ow, ow. And I said, hey, um I was like, I don't know. I can't help your knee, but I can get you a free statue if you want it. And she goes, oh, free statue. She stood right up. She was immediately healed. It was amazing. I felt like I had the gift of like spirituality. >> Wow. >> And and she walked over and she grabbed a statue for free. She walked off. I was like I was like, she's a genius. It's like that woman is way smarter than me. But yeah, no, but it was a great sign that collectors and this concept of creating value is massively valuable. By the way, not everybody that's collecting is collecting because they love the subject matter. Some people are collecting because it just makes money, you know, and that is a that's to me a legitimate reason to collect. >> What do you think about scalpers in the industry? >> If you have real demand, you don't need scalpers. Um, but that's the only time they come around. Scalpers don't want to show up unless there's real demand. So, unfortunately, you get this like compounding effect where you've got this real demand and then you've got scalpers on top of it. And so, sometimes it's hard to gauge what the real value would be if they didn't exist. But, yeah, no, scalpers make an enormous impact. Like, I remember a few years ago, Pokemon was selling this um Pikachu that they had done with an artist. It was very, very cool. It was a couple thousand. And the amount of scalping bids, it must have outweighed everything else so tremendously because the next time they had a drop like that, there were like three different mechanisms you had to jump through. I think that you have to control for it. You don't want scalpers to make up too much of a percentage of the consumer pool, but it's, you know, they help the demand, that's for sure. How come some things just naturally do really well, like baseball cards and other things? For example, soccer is a much larger sport globally, but soccer cards aren't very popular. The same thing goes, I feel like for football, football's very popular here in America. Basketball, basketball's massive here, but I feel like people don't care as much about football, definitely. Soccer, definitely, and basketball cards maybe less than baseball when baseball seems like such like a unique and like not very >> popular sport relative to the others. >> I think that that's a controversial take. I think it's Yeah. Yeah. I think basketball I think basketball cards. Yeah, basketball cards. >> But football and soccer football's football's a good product. Okay. Soccer recently has been one of those value creation tools that I'm talking about. So a 2004 Mega Cracks Lionol Messi. Okay. You could get a PSA 10 for like $30,000 6 years ago. Today that card sells for over a million dollars. Maybe a million two. A million. You think it could be on the come up soccer? >> 100% on the come up. >> And and what's happened right now, a few cards have kind of run away from the pack and pays always tend to do really well. >> Um but no, now soccer cards are on fire. Yeah, >> that's what Jason Oenheim said. >> I can actually look into that. >> He bought the Messi card and then he said he lost money because had he just held on to it, he would have made even more. >> No doubt. Oh, absolutely. That card has gone up six, seven times in the last couple years and even WNBA. Okay, so I will tell you this, the last thing in the last 3 months that I dropped some money on was Asia Wilson 2018 written house rookie cards, PSA 10. She is the goat. She is the goat. Okay, four MVPs, three defensive players of the year, three championships. All of that is going in her favor. That card's going to go way up in value. >> Kaylin Clark, that would be a good one. It's interesting though because Caitlyn Clark is a mover of eyeballs. People want to see her. She's also incredible. She doesn't have an MVP. She doesn't have a defensive player of the year. She doesn't have a championship. >> She will. She will. She will. >> That's why I think that it could be cheap right now. The card. >> No. >> Yes. What you What happens if if someone like Messi >> has a public scandal does does a no no? What happens to the value of the cards? It it depends. Okay, so OJ Simpson had a public scandal and his rookie card in top condition is very valuable. Okay, and and frankly speaking, he's kind of gauged for what he did on the field when it comes to collectibles. With that said, it's not nearly the value that it could have been. Uh I really do think that OJ would have been celebrated differently. More people would have celebrated him if he had not had uh a double uh allegedly. >> Uh thank you. So Messi, here's the thing. When you're at the end of your career and you do something naughty, your statistical career is already spoken for. You've already won your championships. There's a time, a period of time where it depends on how long that naughtiness sticks with you. If you've said something mean and people's feelings are hurt, it sticks with you less time than if you somebody. >> Yeah. >> So, but it also depends on when it happens. It's like people that get in big trouble their third year. Oh my god, it's such a huge risk. >> See, another thing is when I was a kid, the only real thing I collected was baseball cards. I had tons of them. The one person I decided the first card I ever got was an Alex Rodriguez card. And then I was like, I'm going to only collect Alex Rodriguez cards. And so now I have like I sure I have like thousands of baseball cards now, but the one card that I have like over 50 of is just a bunch of A-Rod. And then he did steroids or it came out that he had done steroids. Yes. And then I think that it really negatively affected the Alex Rodriguez card value because A-Rod now you can get his rookie card and it's not that expensive for how elite of a player he was throughout his entire career. That's an opportunity. >> It is an opportunity, but I that's true, but I also feel like it would have probably happened by now. He's been retired for quite a long time. >> Well, I'll tell you this. I just bought uh one of Barry Bond's like key cards. It's like a tops traded card if I'm remembering or Tiffany card or something like that. PSA 10, not too many of them. That card's rocketing in value right now. >> But he's also like cemented in history cuz he has he's the home run leader and A-Rod doesn't like he of his time was elite like as a as a fielder, as a hitter, just as like performance-wise. Incredible. But I feel like he doesn't have one thing that makes him stand out like Barry does with the home runs. I think that that is so well said and I think that that's going to be a challenge for him to establish the kind of valuations that he would have had otherwise. >> But he does have a diehard fan base. >> People are like, you know, rabid for A-Rod. They >> like for instance like Jeter and Griffy who never got caught up in anything. >> Their their valuations are soaring. So to what you're saying, >> Jeter's rookie card is worth way more than A-Rods. Way more. >> Yeah. >> What do you think of serial killer memorabilia? because I've seen some John Wayne Gayy art, >> okay, >> and they're selling for pretty decent prices. And I remember when the Jeffrey Dawnmer uh show came on Netflix, people were buying Jeffrey Dawnmer memorabilia and those seem to be quite collectible. What are your thoughts on some dark history collectibles? >> There's value. Absolutely. Um it's not my genre, okay, I will just say that. But it does have all the elements that make someone interested. Okay. Horror genre is big. Okay. And frankly speaking, like we're the global partner for Five Nights at Freddy's uh at at Jazwares and >> and that product line is blowing up. Okay. And it's horror genre. What you're talking about is real. Okay. That's very different, but it hits the same chords in your brain. You're scared. You're like, I can't believe that happened. >> The person is known. Interestingly, whenever you find someone that's known, there's always a community of people that not necessarily celebrate, but are aware of what they did and think about it. And yes, there's value. I remember even seeing that someone was sneaking up to a house that Jeffrey Dmer either lived at or uh you know, mworded someone at and they were stealing dirt >> and and they were stealing dirt to pack and sell it. like this was the dirt at his house >> or this was his fork, this was his spoon, this was his uh lamp and people were going and like stealing these items or or trying to keep them to be able to resell them and and they're selling. But it but it's quite interesting to have feel like you have a piece of history uh behind that story. >> I think that that's exactly it. I think that that in time, look, as a as someone who doesn't have the urge to harm another person, >> yeah, >> you still want to watch Breaking Bad. You still want to watch these things occur, it doesn't mean that you have it in you. And I think the further you get away from a bad acting, it becomes more tolerable because it feels like content versus reality. And so I do think that these things require time for people to kind of reprocess before they have value. So if someone goes and does something terrible, I don't think there's any value to it. I think it becomes later. And and and even for me, it's so dark. Like I stay away from it, but it doesn't mean that it's not a collectible category because I I I know how humans like we're talking about Breaking Bad, right? Breaking Bad is is not the celebration of heroic acts, but the the items on Breaking Bad. Some of those items could sell for a ton of money. Uh because it is maybe potentially the greatest show in the history of television. >> So, I was thinking of I had heard of Kurt Cobain's house, the Seattle house. >> Yes. >> Was sold in 1997 by his widow Courtney Love for $3 million >> to a Seattle businessman. I think that his property or famous people's properties as well could go up in value. And we were actually talking to R.J. Mitti from Breaking Bad about the Breaking Bad house that's in Arizona or New Mexico. It's in New Mexico. And imagine if you buy that house and then list it on Airbnb and then huge fans of Breaking Bad could pay a premium price to stay in the Breaking Bad house. Same thing goes for other celebrity houses like Kurt Cobain or other >> guitar recently famous houses. You have a few artifacts in there or something if they're like very secured and then you list it on Airbnb. You could probably make a pretty good return. Oh, I have no doubt. Especially market it well. >> Well, especially today because content drives so much and there are so many people that make money on content. I mean, think about just the folks alone. someone who is a a rock and roll genre uh influencer goes and stays at one of these places and then covers it. Um and then they have an entire community that's interested and wants to have a similar experience and you know humans were pack animals in some ways and so therefore yeah it's a huge business opportunity. Absolutely. I fully endorse it as an opportunity. I think the same thing goes for uh heroic CEOs like Elon Musk's early work >> or something that he printed out and signed like like an application to something. The Steve Jobs they keep they keep auctioning off >> random papers that were signed. One of them I think went to auction and I think it sold for millions of dollars and it was someone mailed in asking for his autograph and then he sent a paperback. Sorry I don't give autographs signed and then he signed his name there. >> One of my favorite collectibles of all time because it's so dry. The wit is so dry. Sorry I don't sign autographs. And then he signs it. Brilliant. And by the way, right away it's context matters. So, if he had just signed a blank piece of paper and sent it, it would probably been worth 150th of Sorry, I don't sign autographs. >> Yeah, >> that's genius. >> Jason Oppenheim also recently bought math done on a piece of paper by Albert Einstein. >> What? >> He said it was $50,000. And I thought that's actually a pretty good price. That was a math equation. >> And then what he did is he scanned it and then blew it up as art in his office. But he has the original. That's wild. And you don't think of that like you don't like you think of an artist or you think of lyrics like for someone who's making an album, but you don't think of a mathematician's equation on a piece of paper. That's rad. Because in in the toy business, we talk about play patterns and those play patterns driving consumer purchase. In this world, it's like, is it in context exactly the thing that they're known for? And being that it's what they're known for. Yeah, hugely interesting. >> He's always early, I've noticed, to picking up these things and then every time he does, give it a few years and it's 10xed in value. So, I think something like that will be worth $500,000 in 10 years from now. >> Well, and that's always been my collecting philosophy, okay? When I'm collecting something that I absolutely love because I'm a big fan, I don't think necessarily in this manner. But if I'm collecting into categories that I think are emerging and I'm in it to learn all about the category and benefit, my objective is a 10x return in 10 years. I think that that is a that that that's a very high level objective to try to accomplish something like that. You doing that in business would be incredible. But in collectibles, when you're taking risks on new categories and you're drawing these analogous thoughts and you're saying, "Oh, well, you know what? PSA just started grading magazines, for instance, you go, "Oh, okay. Maybe there's something there. Maybe there's an opportunity. What's the grail? So, let me go find out. >> What about NFTTS? It seems like they had such a come up with like board apes and crypto punks and then they just crashed. >> I have a theory, but first let me let me demonstrate something to you. Okay, let me demonstrate something to you. I'm going to grab Well, okay, I'll start. >> I'm excited to see what you brought up. >> I don't I don't want to grab something there because that actually has value. So, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to demonstrate something to you by Do you have Do you have an inanimate object for me? Glasses. glasses. Thank you. Okay, here we go. Let's just say these are the most valuable glasses in the world because they were owned by Benjamin Franklin. Okay, these were Benjamin Franklin's glasses. They're not, but because of that, they're incredibly rare. They're scarce and everything else. Okay. And over in this hand, I have something invisible. It's an NFT. It's a digital asset. There's no specific value with the digital asset. Uh it's invisible. Now, the only reason why this has value is because it was owned by Benjamin Franklin. These glasses otherwise would cost in materials several dollars. Okay? The only difference between this invisible thing and these glasses is $2 in terms of the actual cost of goods, maybe $10 in the cost of making it. So when you think of an invisible asset like a domain name, okay, a domain name has utility because people go see see what's there and then you can but the domain name like a digital asset if it's got utility, if it has the right utility and that was the theory of NFTts, if it has the right utility, it could have real value. If it unlocks something, an experience or a club or a community. The problem with NFTTS, the real problem with NFTs is that the first couple ones that came out like you know punks or board apes, you know, >> CryptoKitties, >> CryptoKitties, like the those came out and there were not many communities. So they were one of 10,000 or one of 5,000 and people, yeah, I'm going to I want to be a part of this community and went up in value. The problem was within 6 months there were 10,000 communities and 6 months later there were millions of communities and it's all about scarcity and so everything just crashed because the world of consumers could not keep up with the available product and so the interesting thing is and I have a belief that 25 years from now board ape punks they'll have value. The other zillion of them, they'll be very far and few between on the ones that actually have any value. It just they were first. They started the craze. There was something about them that really created this insanity that occurred after. So, yeah, I'm not so caught up in the idea of an invisible asset having no value because you can't see it >> when I think Franklin's glasses could be worth millions of dollars and inherently they're worth five. What are your thoughts on the art market? It just seems like artwork in general is less desirable now for certain buy for younger buyers because they can't relate to it. I think the art market is is fascinating because they're king makers in that market. Okay. There are people that are so talented they make you cry. Their product is so good. And you can go on Tik Tok and you can scroll. >> Oh my gosh. Some of those I've gotten close to buying >> because they're so incredible and I follow some artists on Instagram. I love their work. >> Yeah, there's this guy Dylan Eeken. He's a he's an ultra realistic creator of pencil art. I've bought several of his originals. Um, unfortunately, they burned in the fire as well. That's okay. He is interesting because he's created a community of millions of people that are following him because of his talents. And there are many artists like that that are being followed because of their talents. With that said, the kingmaker community of the traditional art community is different. You have gallery owners and you have a system of people that say, "Let's make this one popular next." And they market the heck out of it and they and they often accomplish exactly what they're setting out to accomplish. I don't know art as well as I know traditional collectibles, but I don't trust it the same way because I do see that kingmaking stuff, at least in sports. Hey, listen. A-Rod took some stuff allegedly, but he was also one of the greatest of all time. I see that statistically. Um, I love the Tik Tok art community because these people are establishing very organically a following. That's the art that I would want to invest in. I would want to invest in that art. That's the art of the future. It's a democratization of art and uh that's that's why I like it. So, you mentioned you lost 99.9% of your collectibles in the Palisades Fire. Yeah. >> I'm curious. What are some of your favorite collectibles that you still retain? >> Oh, well, I had I had two safety deposit boxes and um in one I had uh some incredibly valuable cards. Uh and in the other I had a a Harry Potter book, which I'll show you guys. Um but I also before I left uh the day of the fire, I did take a few things. I took a stack of letters that I wrote as a kid. I took um a bunch of LeBron rookie cards that I had sitting on my desk. that I just happen to be looking at. I like >> a bunch of LeBron rookie cards. I do have a bunch of LeBron rookie cards. >> Just a bunch of them. >> It's sitting on your desk. >> Just a handful of them. >> That's correct. Yeah, actually that does sound a little out of touch. >> No, no, no. It's [laughter] hilarious. Did you leave a bunch of other like >> Yes. Baseball cards? So, I'll tell you what I left. So, not only did I leave some amazing things, but I left things that are currently skyrocketing in value. Like I had an uncut base set um giant sheet on my wall that recently sold for $250,000. I had five sheets. >> Okay. >> Wow. >> Uh I had um the entire first edition PSA 10 Pokemon set from 1999. That set I paid less than $120,000 for in 2020. Today, that set just passed a million dollars in value. The only card that I had in my safety deposit box was the Charizard PSA 10, which is the most valuable card in the set, which is the reason why it was in the box. But darn, I wish I had had the rest of those hollowos in that box, too. Um, I I lost a lot of stuff in that fire. And like I said, I I tracked a lot of it in terms of insurance value, but unfortunately, a lot of it also went way up and I couldn't catch it. So, it's okay. By the way, honestly, it fits perfectly with my concept of life is not linear. So, I have no problem having a lot less stuff now than I did before. Um, and I feel like I did my job. I know what I I know my responsibilities towards my family. I fulfilled them. I I just didn't get it 100% right. So, I step back. I say, I'll take my B+. I don't need an A+ in everything in life. Let's go get an A+ next time. And so, what do you still have? Some of your favorite items. Yeah, I have a 1981 Poppy Hulk Hogan PSA 10 rookie card. There's only two of them in the world that are in perfect condition. I think that is one day a million-dollar item. I have Andre the Giants rookie card, PSA 10. I have seven of uh LeBron James 2003 first edition PSA 10. So, there's only 130. I have a BGS10. There's only three. Um let's see. I have the Ishihara card. I have Jack Nicholas rookie card from 1973. It's a PSA 10 as well. It's in perfect condition. Uh I have my Harry Potter book, which is a remarkable story in and of itself. >> Um and uh I have all my letters that I wrote as a kid. So yeah, I lost 99.9% if I were looking at it in terms of units of the stuff that I had. >> But value, >> but value, you know, I lost most of the value, but I still had some serious value in those boxes. >> What are your thoughts on collecting a PSA 10? >> Yeah. or a whole bunch of PSA 9ines. Just from what I've seen, that 10 sells for significantly more. You you might have a PSA 10 that sells for $100,000, but the nine is 20. First of all, I love that question because people rarely think of it that way. But here's the way collecting tends to work. Okay, the higher the grade, the more rare it tends to be. It's just unusual, especially with older product. Newer product may work a little bit differently because it's about scarcity, but older product where it was like organic collectibles. When the 10 runs away, the nines, it's like a rubber band. The nines tend to follow. Okay, for a moment you could have a 20x differential that doesn't usually stick, but the 10 usually runs first, then the nine tends to run, and then the eight tends to follow it like a rubber band. And that's so interesting about collectibles in that way. And that's the aspiration of it all because the person that's buying the 10 is often someone that can afford it, but the person buying the nine, maybe they can't afford the 10 or they're taking measured risks, but that's aspirational to them. They buy the nine. And that's the way collecting works. So yes, if you can find an enormous delta between the nine and the 10, the nine is not necessarily a bad position to take. It also depends on the population report. So, if there's three 10 and there's 4,000 9 um and there's a big delta, there's a reason for that delta. If there's three tens and there's 10 nines, interesting. And that's like the that's like the idea behind the 2004 Mega Cracks Lionel Messi rookie card. There's only a few tens, there's only a few nines, and then there's some eights. I bought an eight recently. Um, yeah. And what about the different grading companies? because I've heard that there is a pretty large variance between like is it like BGS and PSA and then other ones like how as a collector should you navigate the different grading companies. So, if you don't know any, if you don't know any better, if you're getting started, stick with the granddaddy of them all for me is PSA. Okay? But the more you know, the more playing with all the grading companies makes sense, right? Because the truth of the matter is getting a high-graded PSA card is very, very difficult. And so, here's the way I play it. Um, I collect almost only PSAs. Uh, I will buy a BGS if it's a nine and a half or a 10, especially if there's very few and I see there's a value opportunity because I see that the PSA is significantly more valuable than the BGS. Uh, sorry. Yeah. And and then then there's other companies like CGC and CGC has been incredible in comic books and they're entering into other categories now like like print magazines. And CGC is a is a fine company and if you've got uh bulk cards, you know, it sometimes makes sense to to to go through CGC as a as an opportunity as well. Would you say money makes you happy? Yes. And to what extent? Like when do you felt when do you feel like money made you happy first? Money makes me happy because it's a tool that allows me to explore the things that I'm passionate about. And the more money that I have, the more I can explore those passions. And it's not necessarily experiences because remember I'm very driven by m by stuff, collectibles and and things like that. And and every one of those categories is another community that opens up other people I get to talk to. So money for me as a tool makes me very happy. The concept of money for money's sake is less interesting. Would you say quality of life for you, if you're reporting money and happiness on their own axis, would you say it's like linear growth or would you say how how does that chart look? Well, I I I will say and I've heard people say that that money doesn't make you happier. Okay. And I I think that that's true for some people, but it depends on the utility. If they're just piling money and that's what they're doing with that money, I don't I personally wouldn't take a great deal of enjoyment out of that. Like, okay, so what? You're going to die. Let's just like me. We're all going to die, you know? So, the pile of money that you have is as a marker is only of some import. The utility of that money, that's what's interesting to me. So, if you're a philanthropist, wow, it allows you to do incredible things. If you're someone who loves different communities of people and you you're a Ferrari enthusiast and you want to spend time in Italy and it can give you access to amazing people, yeah, do it. But I I I can see the it really depends on how you spend it. I think the the way you spend money is the function on how much you enjoy it. But is there an amount of money that once you continue to acquire money past that amount, it doesn't have that same it doesn't bring the same amount of happiness? Is there an amount or have you not hit that yet? Or do you think that doesn't exist? I think I think it depends what your interests are. So, if you've got $10 million, you shouldn't go buy a private jet. Okay? If your desire is to fly around in a private jet all the time, don't do it with $10 million. It it will suck away too much of your money and potentially all of your money in time. If you've got a hund00 million, don't buy a spec building in New York City because it could go bankrupt. It could knock you completely out, you know? So, yeah, it it just depends on what your utility is. And that's just the truth. Like for me, my interests are much lower level than that. Like, I want to help change the culture of collecting. I want people to connect with one another over collectibility. There's so much division in this world right now. Okay, we divide over everything. Divide over race and and and culture and religion and gender and all these other things, but you can bring them together when you're talking about fandom and when you're talking about a collectible asset or a car, stuff like that. I realize that doesn't hit with everybody, but I'm telling you that collector mentality, you forget every other divide. Republican, Democrat, all that. You forget it all. Oh, you love that? I love that. Let's talk about it. That's that's my goal in this world. That's where I bring the most value. So yeah, I really I look there is an amount of money that was probably demotivating probably like what happens if you have all the money in the world? What's the point of collecting anything, right? Unless it's just community stuff, but the 10 times return shouldn't mean anything to you anymore. So I get it. Like I just have not reached that mental level myself. So you mentioned you have about 5% of your portfolio in collectibles. You said some people can go up to 10 15% and that wouldn't be too irresponsible. I'm curious the other money that you have. Where are you investing? Um, real estate, stocks, mutual funds. I have a financial adviser. Um, I let them do a lot of the stuff themselves because, you know, how much time does one have in the day? Um, what else? Companies. So, I've invested in about 17 companies in the last six years. Uh the pro the challenge with seed round funding is that most of the time you lose. But like I've got a couple big winners. Like one of the ones that I'm an A- round investor, early round investor is whatnot. And whatnot is a essentially it's like live selling. And they're the leader in live selling. And when I told people about that six years ago, they were like h but now it's like a household name amongst uh at least younger people. Like I if I talk to people my age, they're like, I have no idea what you're talking about. But but yeah, I think I think whatnot could be a hundred billion dollar company one day. And if that's the case, then you know that's a pretty good asset to have. So I've always wondered people that are like financially savvy like I imagine you are, when they have a good amount of money and they have a financial adviser, do you like check in on your quarterly reports? Like do you ask, hey, what percent return am I getting per year on what you're investing? >> It's funny. I I'm I'm pretty trusting. I I We've been working together for a long time and we started working together I think when he was early in his career too. And so when I say I'm a financial adviser, I mean he's probably got 25 other clients. Um but for me that's totally acceptable. Uh I in fact I I really love working with people over time because I can call anytime and say look this is concerning to me and immediately you know Michael replies to me and we have a open dialogue. Uh I I have been the one that's made the big mistakes over time. There's a giant pullback and I'm like take it out. Let's get out. Let's get out. And he's like look are you sure you want to do this? I'm like yes. I lose every single time I lose. So, I just go like, you're not as good at that, Jeremy. Let's let let this other person who's better at that than you. The other thing that I have now is is age and experience. And I'm not just I'm not I'm not as afraid as I used to be. Okay, the stock market can be scary. Okay, it can pull back. It can pull back 30%. It can pull back 20%. But then you look all the way back 100red years and you've got a 7 and 8% return um annualized return and it it's much more comforting. And trust me, as long as we live in a society that does embrace capitalism, which there's been moments where I've been scared about that in in the in recently >> uh because there can be very good humanistic capitalism. It's not just all bad sharks running around biting each other. But as long as we embrace capitalism, companies will continue to grow at a very large rapid rate and and the stock market and 401k are things not to be afraid of over time. But don't be like me and pull stuff out when you're scared. That's the reason why relying on somebody else. It's just way more important than what exactly the return that they're getting every year. Do you think you've gotten a better return from buying collectibles than your financial adviser has gotten you from investing your money? >> Yes. because that category was so much less explored. Okay. So, collectibles as an asset have exploded in value in the last 25 years, but but mostly because the stock market's been around like people kind of know there's a system to it. You know, Warren Buffett was early and he kind of figured out the system and and of course he was like early like collectibles are today, you know. Uh yeah. So, yes, because it was an emerging market. Then do you think that it would make sense for you if you have like a competitive advantage to increase your portfolio percentage from 5% up to 15 maybe 20% if this is something that you're skilled in? Yes, it it would. But I never did. I never did. I I guess I say early on when I was younger, I probably had more of my percentage in a portfolio. But I feel like as a responsible adult who's trying to teach other people to make long-term good decisions, I kind of have to walk and talk similarly. I I don't I don't like to I I don't like to say things that I don't believe and I and I feel like there's a lot of that in this world. Uh so yeah, no, that's that's about it. That's all I will do. I I do believe I have insight and I do believe but remember if I'm talking about emerging categories you don't have to invest a lot in emerging categories those are the ones that are explosive growth so you know like one of the thoughts that I constantly have is when is it the right time to invest in a a new category a new brand okay so I love brands that are like 15 to 20 years old where the consumer group were younger >> so like Harry Potter's a great example of that. So when the book series was launched uh 25 years ago uh those kids were between 7 and 15 years old. Today those kids are 32 to 40. When do you think they have access to capital to start investing in the last 10 years? What do you think's happened to the value of the book? Blown up in terms of the rarity. So how do you extend that? Twilight, Hunger Games, all the other stuff that came 10 years later. I promise you in my mind those are the types of things that chase it. Those those that's where the next set of values come from. >> So give us a prediction of what you think is going to be the most valuable 10 years from now. Could be different categories, could be maybe just five things that you have your eye on. >> So one thing that I absolutely have my eye on is the original Apple 1 computer. Okay, there's only about 50 in existence and they sell right now for $500 to $700,000. I believe one day those are $100 million asset. And and what will drive that is the masses of people that will go into buying sealed electronic equipment. Like what you're seeing is you're seeing the early iPhones blow up in value now. The Ford >> Those are 50 to $100,000 now. >> Yeah, absolutely. I I absolutely had one of those. I had paid like three grand for it. It went up to like 60 70 grand. Like, but like I'll give you one. Here's a here's one. The original Oculus. Okay. So, glasses. Like, right now we're at the very early stages of putting on things that change your ability to communicate with the world through what you can see. Okay. Oculus was first. You can buy a sealed Oculus first edition for hundreds of dollars right now. I promise you, most of those were opened. Yeah. one day that's going to be incredibly valuable in my opinion. So that's an example of something I look at early electronics and then once the masses jump in what does that do to the grails and the grail of that category is the Apple one and that thing should be worth $100 million in my lifetime. So that means that right now at 600,000 and I'd say 30-year time horizon $100 million easily. >> So why don't you buy one? >> I've thought a lot about it. I really have and I might. Yeah, it's it's it's an asset that I would like to own. I I have cash. It's something I would very I'm very much >> Would you would you buy it with somebody like a 50/50 or would you rather just not partner with anybody? >> It depends on the dynamics of what the agreement is. So I personally I'd like to own it outright >> because then I have complete control and if my horizon is 30 years then I don't think anybody wants to be in that game with me. Now, I don't no one wants to tie up their capital for 30 years with me. I mean, come on. However, if on another scenario, someone came to me and said, "Hey, there's 10 of us who were interested in buying this. It's 10 years. We're going to lock this up. We're going to have an agreement just like you would have with any company. There's an operating agreement and there's an agreement exactly what happens. It's placed in a vault, a third party place. None of us can touch it. It's there's going to be an intermediary that is engaged with it." Um, it's interesting. the end of 10 years, is it gonna be 100 million? No. But is it gonna be five, six million? I think so, in my opinion. Yeah. >> So, speaking of the iPhone, what I found interesting is that I was looking on eBay and the original iPhone's 50 to 100 grand. And I was looking and I said, "Well, the 3G, >> yes, >> the second one is only a few thousand." >> So smart. >> So, it's a better deal just to get that right. >> Dude, you're making me emotional cuz that's exactly the way to think. That's exactly right. Yes, 100%. And by the way, that's what's that's what happened to Mickey Manel's rookie card. So that that PSA 10 1952 rookie card blows up in value. And now you look all the way down the chain, 1952 to all the way to 1969. If you can find a PSA 10, those things are very valuable. And how do you know they're not resealed? That was my biggest concern cuz I saw quite a few. And sometimes the seals look a little different. And sometimes the seals were perfect on like the really nice ones that came with the bag and the receipt and all that stuff. But then there was another one without the bag and the receipt where it just looks a little frailed on the edges. You don't know if people just go and open it up, take the phone out, whatever, and then reseal the thing. You can't know for certain. However, there's a registration. You can see if the phone has ever been registered. So, Apple all the way back to their very initial phone, they still keep a database, a registration database. So, you type in that that code before you buy it and if it shows that nobody ever registered the phone, then you have a real possibility that that is an neveroped package, at least it puts you in a better position. Um, the condition of the box, you know, the knowing something about the way the wrap is supposed to fit. Uh, there's the good news is we're in the internet era. uh and and today, especially with the AI, you can immediately access all the data that you need to see what the wrap is supposed to look like. >> So, that to me is the combination. >> Okay. >> Serial number, does it work? What does the packaging look like? >> All right. I think I'm going to buy it. [sighs and gasps] >> Do it. I think that's a good uh a good purchase. >> That would be a cool thing to display. >> Yeah, I think so, too. >> I noticed you brought some collectibles here. Serious. What did you bring? >> I brought a bag of goodies. Okay, let's let's see what you got. >> So, we're going to start with we're going to start with a grail item. Okay, now this is a case. All right. And this case is holding the most valuable modern work of publishing. And I know that because when I purchased it for $200,000 in 2020, this book was the most ever paid for modern work. Okay. And I'm going to open it up on this side, I think. On this side, I think. And what it is is that this is a pristine Harry Potter first print, first edition book. This book today is at least a half a million dollars in my opinion. Uh maybe a lot more. One sold. There's only, keep in mind, there were 500 first edition, first print Harry Potter books because the author was unknown and she was also not wealthy. She had to publish this on, you know, nickels and dimes that she put together. So there were only 500. 300 of these were sent to libraries and they were used and read and smashed and printed and stamped and another 200 ended up in private hands. But most of those were read. This is a very unusual case of a book that is in pristine condition. And this book um I believe one day is going to have uh exponential value. Um interestingly Warner Brothers is about to release a 10-year storyline reintroducing Harry Potter to this generation. Um, I think that this is a masterpiece and I think that one day I believe that I believe one day I'll sell this for 10 plus million dollars. >> Would this be more valuable if JK Rowling signs it or would that make it less valuable that now it's like defamed almost. It's like she she's drawn on it. >> I Well, here's the thing. it it's possible that it would be more valuable, but at some point in time when you hit a certain level of rarity and condition when there's like nothing out there that matches it, you kind of hit the maximum potential value. And so even handling it might actually reduce the condition of the book. But you know what? if she wants to sign this book, I would say yes. Even though I think the book right now uh would sell for, you know, potentially north of 500,000 and maybe even closer to the million-doll level. There just hasn't been anything of this condition sell since that 2021 book sold for $475. So, yes, this is an incredible piece. And in my mind, another thing that makes this piece so amazing is the fact that it survived time when nobody would have ever seen this being a collectible of any kind. And uh and then it became the most published book uh outside of the Bible. >> How did you get this? >> I so I watch so I watched it. Remember aspiration. >> So I haven't always had money and I think I've demonstrated that today very well. Uh but I watch auctions and I get become a PhD in things. And one of the things I became a PhD in was my interest in Harry Potter specifically. And I watched this book come for sale like eight years ago, nine years ago in heritage auctions. It had an opening uh expected price of $20,000. It ended up selling for $85,000. And I thought, man, that would be amazing to own. I know it's going to go up. And a couple years later, I bought it for $200,000 from from the owner that had picked it up. >> Wow. >> Yep. That is the Potter book. Now, one last note about this Potter book. The reason why this has value is because the community is enormous. The book made an enormous indelible mark on hundreds of millions of people, sold untold number of books. Um, and it's just so rare and scarce and the condition is so high. With that said, I will also tell you that there are plenty of other examples of books that are 10 to 15 years old that have also made indelible marks on children that when they're 30 to 5 to 40 years old, they'll see it as something that is has grail worthy value. Percy Jackson, >> there you go. >> I was thinking an an original Dr. Seuss, Lord of the Rings. I know those books are pretty valuable. >> Well, and by the way, that's the other thing, too. When you do have a runner like this, it can lead to other books, even more historical books increasing in value as well. So, the one thing that this doesn't have is a grade. And I do believe that that's a business opportunity. There's nobody that's grading books. I think this is a 10. I think there's only one 10 in the world. And uh some when someone starts grading books, give me a call because I'll bring this. >> Why don't they grade books? Is that because there's too many pages? They'd have to open up every page to find like, oh, on page 94 there's like a pencil mark. >> Well, you know, it's interesting because they don't necessarily do that with comic books, right? They It's more about the cover and the color of the pages. >> But like, yes, the bigger issue is that there's no standard size. So, comic books tend to have a standard size. Trading cards have a standard size. So, books come in all all sizes. And so, it does make it a little bit less efficient from a business standpoint. See, this is the beauty of being a business person. and being a collector because I I understand why this doesn't exist, but I see the business opportunity. >> You know what I think is going to happen with collectible cards is that we're going to start to use AI and within a PSA 10, you're going to have a rank of who has the best PSA 10. And of the PSA 10s, you're going to say, "This guy has the number one PSA 10 of all the PSA 10s." And that card is truly one of one. >> That is so smart. I I've actually had a similar I had had a similar conversation with Logan about that concept because there are AI grading companies and what I said to Logan is I said no Logan don't bust a card out of a PSA 10 but there could be a a ranking based on third party a AI the only challenge with that is that sometimes the cases get dinged and so the just because a case isn't perfect shouldn't cause the card inside to have less value. They'd have to crack the case, >> but recase it and video the entire thing to show you proof that it was taken out and recased as the exact same card. >> Then it would need to be the grading company that originally graded it that had the AI technology. >> Yes. >> And that is very interesting. I think that that could be a differentiator of one of the large grading companies. >> Very, very interesting. Love the business idea. Great. >> What else did you bring? Um, the next thing I brought is, so I told you that when I was a kid, I wrote a thousand, well, I didn't say it this way. So, I told you when I was a kid, I wrote a bunch of letters. And, uh, in fact, I wrote a thousand letters. Um, and I wrote a thousand letters to the most important people of the 20th century. And I had lived in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I I lived in eight different states growing up. And you know, we'd go from state to state, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Virginia, uh I could keep going, North Carolina. And I just felt disconnected and I and I wanted to be successful and I wanted to have this very interesting, colorful life. And I just knew that there were people that had had very colorful lives and and what did they do? So I I sent a thousand letters out and I asked uh these people. I said, "What what's your what's your greatest accomplishment?" and I received over 150 responses. Luckily, all the binders, I grabbed those before the fire. And so, like, if I open this up, what you'll see is often the date is 1992 cuz that's when I was a senior or a junior in high school. And I would write so Leiaoka, that's Billy Joel. Actually, that was the year he was getting divorced. Wow. >> From Christy Brinkley. Desi Ares which is the son of uh Lucy and Desi Ares. This is Mother Teresa. So Mother Teresa wrote me from Kolkata, India, a kid writing from Memphis, Tennessee. >> How do you find her like messaging address? >> Well, I found it because in the library at the time, you could actually look up addresses of known people. And so I spent some time putting together these addresses and I put together a thousand addresses. Keep in mind there may be a little OCD stuff going on here. I I fully admit it and embrace it, [laughter] but I just want you to know that having a little OCD can actually be a very good thing in life. Um, so yeah, I reached out to her >> and Billy Joel just like wrote back to you. >> Yeah, he did. >> I think she was using chatbt. >> Yeah, I see [laughter] the hyphen there. I see. >> Do you see the hyphen? Yeah, you got to stay away from hyphens. >> What who other people do? >> Uh, let's see. So, Steve Allen was the first host of the Tonight Show. >> Um, >> these are like really thoughtful message. Look at that. >> Yeah. In fact, I'll read one to you guys. Colin Powell. >> Let's see. That's Clarence Thomas. It was his first year. >> This is Jim Baker. Jim Baker was an evangelist who was super famous and he was in jail for doing some pretty naughty stuff and he wrote me this long letter from jail. >> Wow. >> Um, this is an interesting one. This guy's name is Max Schmemelling. Max Schmemelling was a Nazi. Okay. Max Schmemelling was also the heavyweight champion of the world that beat Joe Lewis in the 1930s for the heavyweight championship when Adolf Hitler was trying to prove that they were by far the number one race. Then there was a second fight. Joe Lewis knocked out Max Schmemelling in one round. Just knocked him off his feet. And Hitler sent this man off to Siberia essentially for the rest of his life. So I wrote to him because not because he was a Nazi, I have no interest in that, but because he was left after achieving this miraculous thing and he was never really part of the party. So as a kid, I found that fascinating. And Max Schmemelling actually wrote me back. So all in German, this is Jerry Lewis. Um, this I can't see from up here, Jimmy Stewart. So, Jimmy Stewart was in the 1940s one of the most famous people in the world. Um, he was in many, many movies and he was also a World War II hero. Um, Elizabeth Taylor and her letter was all about her work um with AIDS. This is Mr. Rogers. >> Wow. >> So, Mr. Rogers sent me a handwritten note and in his handwritten note to a kid um he explained what his greatest accomplishments were. So it keeps going. Casey Kasem who was a very famous talk radio host at the time. This is Roy Disney. this. So, Walt Disney gets all the credit for Disney, but also there was Roy and Roy Disney talked about how much it was important that he was involved with American history and art and bringing animation as a form of art. Um, pretty remarkable that again he took the time to write me back. I liked business. Vidal Sassoon, Art Buckwald, who at the time was one of the greatest humorists uh of the era and he was uh he was a remarkable writer. Um I can't see what that one is upside down. Uh oh, Edward James Almos. Edward James Almos was a incredible actor. Um, uh, let's see. This is, uh, Mike Wallace, who was one of the original 60 Minutes cast members and an incredible news person. Dan Quail, the vice president of the United States to um, Bush. >> Um, this was Jerry West, who is the logo on in the NBA. And it kept going and going. And Bob Matias was one of our very first Olympic decathlete gold medalists and so on and so forth, binder after binder. >> And so I'll read one to you. >> Yeah. >> That that you know particularly touched me and then I'll turn it around and show you who it is. Um I'll have to put my glasses on because I am 52 years old. It's kind of a shocking thing to say. Okay. Aspire and hard work to achieve your aspirations. Appreciate that in your open in our open society, no doors are closed to people willing to spend the hours of effort needed to make dreams come true and leave tracks. Just as others have been wave way pavers for your good fortune, so you should aid those who will follow in your way. Think of your children and grandchildren to come and do your part to make society as good as you would want it to be for them. Ruth Bader Ginsburg. >> Wow. >> And this was her first year on the bench and she took time to write something that eloquent to a young person who was trying to figure his life out. Pretty powerful. So, you can see how attached I am to this stuff. And I'm so glad I grabbed this because I had, you know, minutes to grab stuff. And it's a fascinating thing. You know, you probably have been, people have probably said to you like, "If you had 15 minutes to grab stuff, what would you grab?" I didn't know that I had 15 minutes. Um, that's a whole another story, but I knew everybody else was leaving. Uh, the city of Cal of Los Angeles has a lot to answer to. Uh, let's just say that. What's What's the status right now on the fire rebuilding the Palisades? >> Yeah. Well, >> I started an ADU project earlier in the year and I'm still uh with the city. >> It's awful. >> It's horrible. >> I know. Um I think what people need to understand about local leadership is that your party identification is irrelevant. The most important thing about local leadership is are you able to operate and are you honest? Are you an honest broker who can operate and know how to lead people? That is the critical element of local leadership. Whether you believe certain lofty things about what happens in different parts of the world is all games personship. It's all BS. It doesn't mean anything when you're talking about hiring police and fire people and public libraries and places to study and affordable housing and all of those other things. It means nothing. It it it is it's it's so disturbing to me that everyone is so focused on national politics when local communities are falling apart. And so Los Angeles is a great example of that. Los Angeles is a disaster when it comes to operational leadership. And you saw that because they let cities burn down during a fire that was relatively routine and could have been put out six days before because it was left smoldering. >> Mhm. >> This only happens because the state of California and the city of Los Angeles at 30-year lows for their fire and police department number of human beings that are actually staffed and hired. This is a state that believes in climate change. Okay, I'm not offering a position on on my belief, but guess what? Whether I believed in it or not, I sure the heck would have a much larger percentage of my team focused on it. Okay, the lowest percentage, the lowest numbers in 30 years and you say you believe in climate change, it's not what you say, it's what you do. And that's true in leadership, that's true in managing businesses, it's true in communicating to people about buying collectibles. It's what you do. It's the reason why when I say 5% of my portfolio, I lock it down because I I don't want to be a false communicator. I want it to be real. And uh God, I feel like we're surrounded by people who are just they just really want to show you how good they are, but then they act exactly the opposite. >> Why Why are you choosing to stay and rebuild other than leave? Um, I moved so much as a child and I've never felt so connected to a community like I've felt in the Palisades. Um, I also feel a great deal of responsibility towards Aladena because that was an affordable area of living where people who were teachers and um people who were preschool teachers and people who had good jobs but they lived in proximity to Los Angeles, they could afford a place to live. Like it's a shame and it's amazing that one of the most affluent and then one of the most like really great examples of a working community that's really turned an area into a beautiful area. They both burn down. So it just goes to show you the ineptitude runs deep. There is no favoritism when you're operating something poorly. The last thing that drives me nuts is you've got Gavin Newsome that keeps touting the fact that California is the fourth largest economic force in the world. But we also have the largest deficit of any state in the history of the United States after he originally inherited the largest surplus of any state in the history of the United States. We've got to stop measuring things on their size. We have to start measuring things on whether they are actually operating well. Okay? And again, remember I'm keeping it local because I I why why would I give commentary on what's happening at the national level or the global level when I believe we need people to operate locally who really want to be there and make it better. So that's my mindset there. >> If you could own one item, [laughter] >> that's a hard transition. Yes. >> If you could own one item throughout the course of history, no price involved, what would it be? >> That's t that's that's really good. If I could own one item in the course of history, >> no selling it, just having it. >> I think because I have been so conditioned to love cards and trading cards, I would want to have the PSA 8 Honest Wagner T206 card. Um, I I know it's it's already $50 million, so I'd know by owning it, I've just had an incredible boon to my own personal net worth. I also have a ticket to go anywhere I want and have a conversation with anybody I want because I can just put that card there and be like, "Let's talk." Uh, and it's it's part of baseball history. It's part of lore. Um, do you know who originally not originally, but like do you know who really pushed the valuation of that card up? >> No. >> Wayne Gretzky. >> Oh, I actually did hear about that. >> Yeah. >> Wayne Gretzky bought that card for a couple hundred,000. It's always interesting. But I'll tell you another anal an analogous [clears throat] time to that. But yeah, Wayne Gretzky bought that card for a couple hundred,000, sold it for 800,000 >> and brought so much attention to the entire thing. Actually, interestingly enough, in comic books, uh, I would love to own an Action Comics one in the highest grade. Nick Cage bought one for $150,000 in 1997. It was stolen from his home. He got a insurance payout from his insurer, Chub in 2011. It was recovered. Chub now owned it. Sold it for over $2 million. Cage already got his payout, so he didn't get a dime of it. >> And he was actually okay with that. I mean, it is what it is. He got his payout. He didn't stick to it. >> Today, it's 10 plus million. In my lifetime, it's 100 million. So, I it the only reason why I would choose the Wagner is that it it's incrementally more valuable, but the Action Comics one is awesome. Awesome. In the in the highest condition. >> What would you have? [sighs and gasps] >> I mean, like if we're talking collectibles, it would be the same card. Yeah. The T206. It's awesome. >> Yeah, because just growing up as a kid, like that was that was actually So, my house burned down as well in the Ventura fires. >> Sorry. >> It's all Yeah. I mean, that was back in 2017, the Thomas fire, and the only thing that I saved were my baseball cards. >> So, they were very important to me at the time, so I still have them, which is sick. >> Those the A-Rod cards. >> A-Rod cards. I mean, I have more than just Alex Rodriguez. [laughter] Like, I have thousands and thousands of baseball cards. He was just the one where like I would go to a card shop and I'd be like, "All right, show me all of your A-Rods." Like, I don't have this one yet. I'll get this one. >> Oh, man. >> But I still have my baseball card. So, I would probably say like the Honest Wagner. Yeah. >> That would be cool. >> That's awesome. What about you? probably do an old car. Probably a Ferrari 250, GTO, McLaren F1. I pick one of those. >> The uh or a Ferrari F40. What was an SLS Mercedes set the record for the highest price ever paid for a vehicle? It sold for $150 million about 3 years ago. >> And uh yeah, like think about it again. In your lifetime, you go back 30 years and the highest price paid ever for a car was maybe 120th of that. I don't know exactly, but I'm guessing it was barely a million dollars. So, it is incredible what happens with these collectible values and uh a store of value. They're an amazing store of value. Um, so >> yeah, I want to show you something that I think is really unique because you got me thinking of collectibles. Something I've been unknowingly collecting for the last few years. Every time one gets sent, I keep it. Every sing I'm going to bring it. Okay. [laughter] >> You've seen it. You've seen it. I >> I think I know what you're talking about. Interesting. it got, you know, back to normal. >> I see. I see. >> Well, I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad that it feels that way because I'm looking forward to that. >> How much longer do you think? I mean, it's >> about 2 and a half years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> At least. >> So, I think I think Jimmy is going to be the next Walt Disney. >> Okay. >> And this he sent to I believe it was 50 or 75 influencers for the launch of Fastables. >> Brilliant. And this was the original one that he sent that started all the feastables. I haven't opened it since then, but I took the chocolates out. >> Okay. >> Uh so there's still no chocolates, but there's some stuff underneath here, but besides the chocolate, uh everything is still in here. >> So, >> and I just thought initially these are such high quality that there's no way I could throw it away. So I can't >> That is so smart because if 50 went out, >> I guarantee you 40 of them are are now in a dumpster. Probably [snorts] >> 45 46 >> maybe. But every time he sends me a Feastful's box, I keep them. Here's another one. >> Oh my god. And that just that means that the scarcity is very high. >> Yeah. But like look at this. It's just >> Oh. [snorts] Oh, this one still has the This one still has the chocolate inside [laughter] with, you know, a little letter. That's This is interesting. Uh Yeah. There was also one one I don't have unfortunately. It was his which would be the most valuable. It's when he launched De's Nuts. >> Yes. >> And he had to take that back because he didn't own the trademark or something. That one I remember not being in such a crazy package and me not keeping that. But I think in hindsight uh because this one is the uh peanut butter version. So this is probably after De's knots is when I received this one. >> Uh June 30th, 2025. I would still eat it though. [laughter] >> I don't care. >> You know, you know original look packaged goods foods. >> Yeah. >> Don't worry about the the spoil by date. It's actually a category of collectibles. So like you can find people that will have older and by the way some people have enormous repositories and you know what happens to some of that stuff? It's used in movies and film >> because it it's like this fascinating take on the time. Um that's awesome. I I completely agree with you uh that that maybe nobody defines this era more than Mr. Beast. So to have something that he sent 50 of that may only have 10 or 20 in the world still remaining. >> It's spectacular. >> It's really heavy to the point where I feel like I missed stuff that was in the I feel it. Just just pick it up, Jack. There's like Oh my god, >> there's something in there. >> Yes, there's something in there. >> Why don't you look? >> That would be >> Yeah, I actually I don't know what's in here. I must have just grabbed the chocolates from the top. Let's see what's in here. Oh. Oh, it's a s'mores kit. [laughter] [gasps] >> That is really well done. That's what you put the marshmallows on. >> Yeah. This This was completely unopened. >> I didn't even know what's in here. >> Maybe like graham crackers probably. >> Oh, yeah. Probably that and marshmallows. >> Brilliant. >> Yeah. Yeah. Gra. Wow. It's fe It's Feastables. Graham crackers. [laughter] >> Look at that. And this one's not even broken. Oh my god. >> See, those don't exist. >> Wow. S'mores Fuel Fast. He labeled everything. >> Brilliant. >> All right. I'm going to be very gent Oh yeah. And then there's marshmallows down there. Oh gosh. I'm just going to put this down there so it doesn't crack. >> That's incredible. >> Oh man. Yeah. That's why it's so heavy. Okay. It's the uh it's the canister that you put the fuel in to to create your uh Yeah, that's amazing. >> And then this is the the the little announcement. >> Yeah. >> So, would this be more valuable if he signed it? >> Yes, >> it would. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes, it would be more valuable if he signed it because if there are 20 of them still and three of them are signed and you keep this one in extraordinary condition, I have no doubt that it will be of great value creation. Also, you know what? I I I don't think I've maybe I've just never researched it, but I don't know how prolific of a signer he is. >> He I Yeah, he signed a lot of shirt for quite a lot of shirts. Um >> Okay. He signed I think it was a dollar bill from me. >> I see. Oh, I like that. That's great. But >> I have probably of those I have six or seven boxes. Every time he does a launch, >> I've kept them. I have a I have a Halloween box. I have two other boxes in there. Um yeah, I keep them all. I even have a briefcase. One of one of the Mr. Beast uh briefcases. >> Unbelievable. >> Keep all your own stuff, too. I don't really much. Yeah. Okay. I was going to say >> I mean it's the Warren Buffett of our time. I know you're gonna want you're going to want to keep his stuff. >> You know what's interesting? I'll never get to know that. The only time you'll become Warren Buffett is when you're the 95year-old guy that's spouting off incredibly valuable pieces of information still. So you you got to plan on longevity, but there's not going to be any 115year-old sitting in the audience. That's the interesting thing about life. And and that's the beautiful thing that I think older people have a responsibility to younger people to remind them that everybody that right now is an icon, you're the next icon. Like you're the next icon. Like of course it's very clear when you're in your 50s that that's the case. It's much harder to see that in your 30s cuz you're working so hard to make it to make it happen. In your 20s, it's really hard. You know, I think I think it's just the reality. But there's some a really special decade. Your 50s is a very special decade. >> You also brought some other stuff. Let's see what you got there. >> All right. So, the the last two things that I brought are really to talk about emerging markets of collectibles. >> Okay. So, this >> Whoa. >> is the highest graded ever and I think it's CGC uh first magazine that Hulk Hogan ever appears in. Okay. So, this is a wrestling magazine from the late 70s I believe. And uh I think it was he was uh at Madison Square Garden and this was the first magazine that he had ever appeared in. Now the fact that it's his first appearance but he doesn't show up on the cover is consequential. It reduces value >> but I thought it was so awesome that this was representative of that. Now magazines, there are zillions of magazines just like trading cards. Yeah, but unlike trading cards, nobody thought of them in a collectible manner. >> So to find them in high condition is very unusual. And so what I would say is like the Time magazine that you were talking about earlier, look for important sports figures, look for important political figures, high-grade, almost a slam dunk, important uh figures of actors, actresses, scientists that are known, Albert Einstein. Unbelievable opportunity. Uh PSA has also started grading these. While comic books has been have had a 30-year history of grading and trading cards, magazines are new. >> How much is that worth? >> Um a couple thousand, maybe more. >> Uh I paid $7,000 for an Andre the Giant highest graded one because he is the cover. Um, I think if this were Hulk Hogan's first cover, it probably would be worth a little bit more, but I I just, you know, I I like the I liked it a lot, so I had to I had to buy it. >> Wow. >> So, this is a this is a new area of grading. This is an area where there's been tens and tens of millions, hundreds of millions, actually, billions of units sold. There's a standard size, and that works in collectibles very well. And it's it's records, LPS. M >> so people are now grading LPS and cassettes. Okay, this is VMG. They're one of the graders, but also uh Steve Aayoki has also launched one as well, AMG. These are two really good grading services that are out there. They're small still and and highgrade albums and records could have enormous value. No LP has ever sold for a million dollars. There has been an LP. I believe it was a some sort of Beatles LP. I don't remember which one it was, but it sold for $600 700,000. It was signed. It may have been super limited edition, but there hasn't been the watershed moment yet here. Um, I do believe that now there are people like AMG and and this particular grading service um that there's going to be some real serious opportunities in in LPS and and so this one's cool because it's Mickey Manel. And Mickey Manel is a great collectible uh in trading cards. So why wouldn't he also make a great collectible in period pieces that are related to this particular category? >> And then of course because of all then of course because of all my years in wrestling I had to uh get the Hulk Hogan album >> as well. >> Um but yeah no these this is a all new area of collectibility. Now what happens in this area? Okay, much like these other areas of collectibles, a grail will run. It will sell for a certain price. That price will escalate significantly over time and then other things will follow. People will be interested in various fandoms. They'll be interested in various things and valuations increase in time. And that's generally the way it works. So for me, so for me, looking at at brands that are 15 to 20 years old that were meaningful to younger people or looking at new areas where they're certainly cataloging and and slabbing and grading, those are two fantastic areas to participate without putting as much money in with a much larger upside opportunity. It's like investing in an A- round company versus investing in something that's already traded for 30 years. That's so cool. I think it's going to be some YouTube stuff 15 years from now. Like that's where you could get in early. I think is when with YouTube memorabilia. >> I think you're exactly >> like a PewDiePie 10 million subscriber uh diamond play button. >> I think someone put that on eBay a while ago. They found it in the trash. Threw it away. They found it on eBay. They bought it and someone has it. >> That's outrageous. >> I think it might be Jack Sucks at Life is his YouTube channel name. I think he might own it. He bought it, >> I believe. So, >> brilliant. >> Yeah, >> it's that's valuable right now. And And I think PewDiePie was the first to 10 million. >> I don't know if he was the first. >> He was the first to 100. >> The first to 100. Okay. Well, maybe it was Ray William Johnson. Ray William Johnson first. >> Yeah, I believe maybe. >> Or Smosh. >> Or Smos. >> It's one of them. But if you could get one of those, >> do the play buttons go all the way back to the origin of YouTube? Do they did they always do that or did that come about? >> I I think that they came up at a certain time. Interesting. >> Yeah, I think I could be wrong. >> Yeah, you get the original play buttons, but I don't know. With channels, it's tougher, but I think like a Mr. Beast or a PewDiePie >> stands out above all the rest. >> Absolute grail items. Absolute grail items. >> Cool. Well, thank you. Is there anything else you think that's it? Thank you so much, Jeremy, for coming on the podcast. Guys, I'm really curious. If you're going to try to convince us to buy something cuz you think it's going to go up in value, please just comment it down below. If there's some item that you think is undervalued, some collectible thing, it's got me thinking. Makes me want to buy some like Beatles memorabilia. That sounds good. Or like artists that are blowing up right now. Could be opportunity there. >> Yeah, I agree. And also, I want to invite you. So, I have a group. It's called the Index. It's a lot of highle entrepreneurs and business owners. We're having a meetup here in Las Vegas pretty soon. So, if you want to join that, >> you're more than welcome to come as a guest. And if you want to apply, by the way, we have a link down below in the description. Uh you could put in your info and uh we usually just pick like one or two people at a time. >> Cool. I'm in. >> Cool. Sounds good. >> Awesome. Thank you guys so much for watching. Thanks for coming on the show. Till next time. >> Till next time. >> It's freaking amazing. Thank you. Thanks. Cool.